ARG1 said:
PCCs are extremely small vehicles that are built extremely similarly to busses, and guess what, nobody is manufacturing anything remotely like them anymore. Modern LFLRVs are a completely different beast.
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No, but it shows that speed is not an inherent property to one traction type or another. The CLRVs were slower to accelerate than the PCCs; while the PCCs accelerated at a speed of 4.3 MPHPS, while the CLRVs were neutered down to 3.3 MPHPS and the ALRVs even worse at 2.65 MPHPS.

I don't have any stats on hand for the Flexitys, but point of bringing this up is that all three of those vehicles were in the same size category, and despite that, performance was markedly downgraded. It has nothing to do with vehicle type and everything to do with the specifications the project calls for. If you wanted to, I'm sure you could get an LRV with hot rod acceleration. And framing it is a bus vs. LRV issue is also problematic, because again, it comes down to the specifications called for. Remember the GM New looks and how slow they were compared to more modern buses?

ARG1 said:
the typically opens door significantly faster than LRVs. Just compare the TTC busses opening and closing doors with the Flexity Outlooks where the doors are typically slower and occasionally you even have to sit through a jingle.
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The only reason you don't have to sit through a jingle on those buses is because they only have two, max 3 doors, so the driver has to focus on less doors and there is much less chance of him shutting the door on someone. Bringing up the TTC Flexity doors is also neither here nor there, because the doors were intentionally slowed down right before covid broke out, because safety trumps common sense at that organization.

It's definitely not a universal problem. Here's a video from an old tram in my hometown, right as the doors close. The amount of time the jingle takes is completely negligible. And remember, new LRTs are low floor, so the added dwell time of people climbing the stairs wouldn't be there, either.


It's also not universal to buses... the Orion VII doors take a lot longer to close than Nova doors. And that's before I get into the fact that the Hurontario bus doesn't have bus only lanes, while the LRT will.

Again, all this tells me is that North America is extremely bad at building transit. Even new transit projects are many miles behind older European ones. If we forced anyone proposing a transit project to travel to Europe and study their systems extensively before proceeding to develop the nitty gritty aspects of the project, we would be a lot better off. None of the problems you allude to are inherent to rail transit, nor would they be difficult to deal with, if there only existed the political will to do so.
 
T3G said:
The only reason you don't have to sit through a jingle on those buses is because they only have two, max 3 doors, so the driver has to focus on less doors and there is much less chance of him shutting the door on someone. Bringing up the TTC Flexity doors is also neither here nor there, because the doors were intentionally slowed down right before covid broke out, because safety trumps common sense at that organization.

It's definitely not a universal problem. Here's a video from an old tram in my hometown, right as the doors close. The amount of time the jingle takes is completely negligible. And remember, new LRTs are low floor, so the added dwell time of people climbing the stairs wouldn't be there, either.
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In many tram networks in Europe (e.g. Vienna, Zurich, Munich or Berlin) and on the Swiss and Austrian Railways, doors have elevator-quality sensors, so drivers don't have to monitor the doors at all (on old trams in Vienna and Graz, there are no mirrors/cameras at all). They can work a lot faster when they don't have to worry about a trap-and-drag.
 
MovingBlock said:
In many tram networks in Europe (e.g. Vienna, Zurich, Munich or Berlin) and on the Swiss and Austrian Railways, doors have elevator-quality sensors, so drivers don't have to monitor the doors at all (on old trams in Vienna and Graz, there are no mirrors/cameras at all). They can work a lot faster when they don't have to worry about a trap-and-drag.
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Any modern piece of transit equipment built in the last 30 years - including buses, and most certainly here in Toronto - has this same suite of sensors.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
Any modern piece of transit equipment built in the last 30 years - including buses, and most certainly here in Toronto - has this same suite of sensors.

Dan
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There is a noticeable difference in sensor quality between the German-speaking countries and the rest of the world. In most places, the light barrier for an automatic door is only located at foot level, so that the door does not close on someone walking through, but it cannot detect objects (such as a hand) placed in the door at arm level. Additionally, many places disable the barrier for forced closure. While the sensitive edge is always active, it's not very good at detecting flexible objects, so it's still possible in many places to gain interlock with a trapped object. Most places just dismiss this safety risk by saying that the passenger is not entitled to safety if they stick their hand in the door.

Agencies in German-speaking countries have much higher standards for safety from trap-and-drag because of their operational situation. In many legacy tram networks, and on the mainline railway networks, there are stops on curves where it is not possible for the driver to see all of the doors on their vehicle. To guarantee safety in these situations, vehicles are designed with light barriers covering the entire height of the door (as in elevators), so that any object passing through is detected, and the vehicle immobilized until the object is released. Those agencies do this because they understand that prioritizing passenger safety improves cost-efficiency (by eliminating the need to monitor the doors).

The Swiss and Austrian railways regularly operate trains up to 1000 feet long with one person because of their safety culture, where passenger safety getting on/off trains is the priority. It's a big difference in mindset from the agencies that don't believe the passenger is entitled to safety at the doors.
 
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Do we have confirmation of whether this line will be numbered or not? Apologies if I missed it somewhere, but last I remember it was up for debate whether it would be 7, H, or not have a code at all
 
ben.thebean1 said:
Do we have confirmation of whether this line will be numbered or not? Apologies if I missed it somewhere, but last I remember it was up for debate whether it would be 7, H, or not have a code at all
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It can't be 7 as that's reserved for the now-separate Eglinton East LRT. But I know which number (if they skip a few) I don't want it to get...
 
Transportfan said:
It can't be 7 as that's reserved for the now-separate Eglinton East LRT. But I know which number (if they skip a few) I don't want it to get...
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If Metrolinx really wants to assign numbers to all rail transit lines in the GTHA, then this could be line 10 (and line 8 for Hamilton's King St. LRT).
The numbers aren't assigned to any other lines (yet), might as well use them.
 
Hamilton isn't really part of the GTA so it would not make sense for it to be assigned a Toronto subway line number, although I can easily see still see it for Mississauga.

The Hurontario LRT will open first (Hamilton's LRT is still only being planned), so it would be logical to be numbered 8 and Hamilton's 9 to be chronologically sequential.
 
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I like the idea of maybe using a letter (H for hazel or hurontario, but ig hamilton would also want H) though ik metrolinx wants to use letters more for GO. If the line were to get a number i think 10 would be best. Feels far enough removed from the other subway line numbers while still making sense for highway 10
 
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