^ First, you have Mayor Hazel who is as powerful a force as Hurricane Hazel was. She wants this and knows what buttons to push and what favours to call in.

Second, it's not Metrolinx's 'Big 5'/'5 in 10' plan because it's view as having the best chance of multi-level funding. It's still in Metrolinx's mandate from the MoveOntario2020 plan and viewed as a 'Quick-Win' project for "Dundas and Hurontario Higher-Order Transit Corridor Development".

Third, it's being incorporated into GO Transit corridor plans. If it doesn't happen all the feasibility studies that included it will be less reliable, so there must be some level of confidence that it will be funded.

Fourth, it's the biggest project outside TTC or GO that would involve Metrolinx. It's a small enough ticket price to put mass transit on the main north/south corridor in the 6th largest city in Canada without invoking as much anti-Toronto resentment as if it ran up Jane Street. This shows Metrolinx is for Ontario not for Toronto.

Fifth, as federal stimulus spending wears out, federal investment is going to revert to those that make the most economic sense (hopefully) instead of political vote-winning/job-creating projects. If federal money in Ontario doesn't go to Hurontario/Main LRT it'll go to Hamilton that makes the next most sense or KW which makes political sense being the closest ran seats in Canada (Conservate upset by 17 votes).

Sixth, it's needed. According to the BCA the full BRT option cannot meet projected 2021 capacity requirements.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
The report you linked doesn't mention LRT being phased, at least not that I saw.
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Inside info. It is also something I have said in the past in getting the line up and running ASP.

Surprised no one pickup on the Dundas location for a carhouse.

There is no land large enough to house a carhouse for Hurontario let alone the Dundas LRT. The only place there is enough land to house 150-200 LRT is in the dixie Rd area and that too far for the Hurontario line.

To put the carhouse there, you need to built the Dundas line at the same time and I cannot see that happening at this time.
 
Is there a reason why the carhouse can't be built on some of the empty land just north of the 401 or just south of the 407, west of Hurontario? There is enough space there to build a carhouse and leave the Hurontario frontage open for residential or other development.
 
drum118 said:
Inside info. It is also something I have said in the past in getting the line up and running ASP.

Surprised no one pickup on the Dundas location for a carhouse.

There is no land large enough to house a carhouse for Hurontario let alone the Dundas LRT. The only place there is enough land to house 150-200 LRT is in the dixie Rd area and that too far for the Hurontario line.

To put the carhouse there, you need to built the Dundas line at the same time and I cannot see that happening at this time.
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If they can find room for carhouses in Toronto, there's no reason they can't in Mississauga. Like seriously, that's a non-issue.
 
I realize that operationally having the carhouses near where transit corridors may intersect makes sense but I can't help but think the carhouses should be located in more remote locations along the route so the intersections can be fully developed with a higher density. It might make operational sense to put a subway yard at Yonge and Bloor but from a land value and city planning perspective it doesn't make much sense.
 
Or you know, the Brampton land on the south side of the 407 that will never be developable because it has no access from Brampton proper. I'm sure the cities will buy/expropriate whatever land necessary to build this. I think it should be built in it's entirety from the get-go, although I don't mind if it's *opened* in phases.
 
doady said:
Option 1 (full LRT) seems to be the most favoured option for Hurontario-Main beased on the report. Carhouse at Dundas in Option 3 (partial LRT-BRT) is stupid, but seems they want full LRT anyways, so non-issue.
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There is enough land at 407 to house the carhouse for both Dundas and Hurontario.

There is no land east of Hurontario for a carhouse until the Dixie Rd area without closing off streets and doing major exporeration. This is metrolinx narrow thinking and trying to use one carhouse for both lines for option 3. The city does not support option 3.

Full LRT is the way to go, but it comes down to $$ at the end of the day. There more ridership north of Sq One than south of Dundas to warrent LRT north first to SW than PC.

Metrolinx likes BRT. They fail to understand backend operation cost.

LRT will carry more rider per foot of captial cost, /driver, /hr vs, a bus.
 
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EnviroTO said:
I realize that operationally having the carhouses near where transit corridors may intersect makes sense but I can't help but think the carhouses should be located in more remote locations along the route so the intersections can be fully developed with a higher density. It might make operational sense to put a subway yard at Yonge and Bloor but from a land value and city planning perspective it doesn't make much sense.
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It depends on how much you are going to spend on a carhouse. If it's a $30 million building, it might be worth an extra $1 million per acre in land value to build one instead of two. You really just need to sit down and do a thorough analysis of what lands are available, the cost per site, and the size of facility that can fit. If Hurontario LRT goes on and Dundas LRT doesn't, I don't see why they'd keep it where it is now, but you've got to pick one future to consider most likely.


doady said:
Operating cost is irrelevant. Even their own report makes it clear that BRT will not have capacity, whether it be full BRT, or partial-BRT (see Table 9). BRT is simply not feasible, no matter the operating costs. Only Option 1 (full LRT) has the capacity.

If Metrolinx tries to push for BRT and disregard their own report and study then they are even more incompetent than I thought.
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Operating cost is irrelevant?!? Irrelevant? You must work for the TTC. :p Operational costs should be a primary factor is designing a transit system. I don't see Metrolinx as a driving focus in the choice of BRT vs LRT, it's really what the City wants and what the provience and feds are willing to pay. Metrolinx's job is to get it done on cost and on time.
 
^ I guess "irrelevant" for the BRT-vs-LRT choice, given that BRT cannot handle the demand in this corridor.

Obviously, operating cost is relevant in the overall context.
 
You most likely meant moot or a similar term, but I do not find operating costs to have no bearing on or connection with a discussion transit options. There is no such thing as "can't meet capacity" only that you "can't meet capacity affordably".

It's not hard to have the highest cost recovery when you are completing with American auto-centric Metrolopolises and smaller Canadian Cities and don't include capital costs or debt servicing as part of your 'costs'. You can make statistics say anything you like "TTC has the second highest farebox cost recovery ratio in Toronto". Do you seriously believe the TTC has made every sensible capital investments over the last 20 years that keep operating costs to a minimum? If not, then there is room for improvement. As a continuation of my English lesson, the ecoicon following the sentence implies a jest and not a serious alligation, so lighten up.
 
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Mapleson said:
There is no such thing as "can't meet capacity" only that you "can't meet capacity affordably".
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Bullshit - every transit technology has its limits. Just one example: Ottawa's BRT downtown cannot meet capacity, period. Mixed-traffic buses, streetcars, light rail, subways - all have maximum capacities inherent to the technology (and these are higher than capacities you get with regular investment).
 
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LRT for Main-Hurontario
BRT for Dundas (all my riding experiences with the 101/201 services have been a joy- fast, reliable, fewer stops; 202 however, not so much)

I hope y'all get a real version of light-rail as well with adequate grade-separation where warranted, not the fake decoy type a la Toronto's.
 
Fresh Start said:
LRT for Main-Hurontario
BRT for Dundas (all my riding experiences with the 101/201 services have been a joy- fast, reliable, fewer stops; 202 however, not so much)

I hope y'all get a real version of light-rail as well with adequate grade-separation where warranted, not the fake decoy type a la Toronto's.
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Grade separation? It's not needed on Hurontario. Have you seen how wide the Hurontario corridor is? And the narrow parts, e.g. in Port Credit really don't need grade separation either. I'm sure running in mixed traffic in Port Credit will be fine. Maybe some signal priority. Although with Port Credit growing, who knows in the future it may need something better than running in mixed traffic. But that's far off in the future.
 
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