I will guarantee..

That for a NA city, the inner city core growth in Toronto, as a percentage of total growth, is unbeaten.... come on every one knows suburbs sprawl, and that is where growth occurs, = avail land..... what urban area, is directing more of that to the inner city???? :confused:

Thats.... my point, as a region, there is an understanding that the inner city must adapt and evolve..... and that comes from many areas, including Govt!

Again I am comparing this to NA cities, like Mpls...where the inner core is shriveling and only alive during Vikes Twins games, ...tumble weedds moist nights, empty streets, not safe, and this is a safe US city!
 
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Toronto have always had a vibrant core - there is nothing particularly unique about that. The current trend of intensification is merely following the trajectory of a city that didn't suffer (much) from the flight to the suburbs. Besides, from a cursory look at the Canadian data, it seems Toronto isn't that much different from Vancouver or Calgary in terms of core/peripheral growth either between 2001 and 2006, and I have no reason to think that it will different for 2006 to 2011:

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...ps-cartes/pdfs/CMA_CT_maps-cartes/Calgary.pdf
http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...-cartes/pdfs/CMA_CT_maps-cartes/Toronto-2.pdf
http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...-cartes/pdfs/CMA_CT_maps-cartes/Vancouver.pdf

Don't compare it to the average US city - what ails them are decades in the making and no specific policy changes will affect them overnight. Toronto has more in common with NYC, San Fran or Boston in this regard - the core never really "died" and served as a nucleus for additional growth. Also note that the challenges isn't the core - it is the inner suburbs.

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Most of the growth in the region are happening the the fringes, often in unsustainable manner.
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AOD, I don't really post on UT very often anymore, but I do take issue with this statement you’ve made...

Urban development patterns in the GTAH have undergone a drastic pendulum swing over the past decade. The high-rise market has been booming the past several years for a variety of reasons (which may or may not be sustainable) and will reach record level of sales this year - furthermore despite fairly weak overall provincial housing numbers - multi-unit housing starts will reach their highest level since 1988 (possibly even 1978 depending on December starts), while other forms of housing (i.e. single family) are plodding along at near record lows. Both shifts in the marketplace & provincial government policy are factors that are having a strong influence on the monumental shifts occurring.

Growth Plan conformity (Places to Grow) is a very slow process, so the full results on the ground will take years - but the York & Peel ROPAs are essentially done, Halton will be done soon and Durham is a long-standing problem, but OMB hearings or a negotiated settlement could end the conformity process next year. Greenfield density targets of 50 persons/jobs ha will be in place and land allocation methodologies are essentially finalized in most regions. Also intensification targets (40%) in the regions are in place and due to significant land supply shortages these targets are already being reached 5 years early (these targets were considered very very aggressive just a few years ago and far exceed intensification levels in the 80s & 90s) ... I think there is a massive misconception that it is "business as usual" in the 905.

There are 58,696 ha of land available in the whitebelt - yet the current round of conformity has only resulted in municipal applications for an additional 10,155 ha for up to 2031 (5,196 ha residential / 4,919 ha employment) - which is only 17.2% of the whitebelt area (a long-term strategic urban reserve up to the edge of the greenbelt). All decisions regarding future land uses on these lands must conform to the Growth Plan and the Provincial Policy Statement. Land consumption is slowing significantly due to intensification and much higher greenfield densities - our suburbs, while still very much being 'suburban' or considered 'sprawl' by some are being planned and developed very differently than in the past not only in terms of density, but also in terms of watershed based planning with MESPs (Master Environmental Servicing Plans) being a fairly new feature and a variety of other sustainability based items (i.e. new energy targets in the OBC which is a first in North America except for California).

The five year growth plan update released this summer includes growth modeling comparing two future scenarios – one that assumes that the Growth Plan will be fully implemented and one that does not take the Growth Plan into account – it suggests that the Growth Plan could help to conserve as much as 800 square kilometers of agricultural and rural land by 2031 (14% increase in urbanized land vs 39% increase).

Research into existing development patterns over the last decade across the entire Greater Golden Horseshoe (Peterborough to Collingwood to Kitchener-Waterloo all the way down to Niagara) indicate:

2001-2006 share of housing units:
  • 29% Apartment / multi
  • 15% Row / Town
  • 9% Semi
  • 47% Single

2006-2010
  • 40% Apartment / multi
  • 15% Row / Town
  • 7% Semi
  • 38% single

The shift in the GTA specific housing starts is even more pronounced as greenfield land availability is at a critically low volume due in part to official plans being tied up in conformity issues.

The 2001-2006 numbers were already an improvement over the 1990s, and due to some serious land supply issues emerging in a number of areas in the GTAH the first half of the current decade is going to undergo a further major shift towards even more intensified patterns of growth.

Sorry for the very long rant… that being said I agree with you with respect to infrastructure planning (although provincial levels of infrastructure investment are running at record levels both in real terms and as a % of GDP are back at the levels in the 50s & 60s – the problem is we’ve gotten so far behind due to decades of under-investment). We are starting to see some progress on this file, but it is frustratingly slow and involves high levels of political interference.

-Mike
 
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Mike in TO:

Thank you taking the time to post (it's been way too long) - I think I should have been a bit more careful in how I phrased what I have said - what I am referring to is less about specifics of the current development patterns vis-a-vis PTG but more on the sustainability aspects - general transportation and lifestyle issues surrounding fringe growth, by indicators such as transit usage, ecological footprints, etc.

AoD
 
Trying to clear things up...

I guess, my real point, is that Canada has seen a shift in the culture, as far as urban living sustainable citys,..... and has a system, that embraces change far more willingly than here...
That shift in popular culture, has trickled into the media, the politics, the real estate and the consumers minds.... a global shift that Toronto has not invented but is willing to embrace as we move away from the auto!!
Just in the difference in what people say on here and what people here talk about, the difference is quite astounding, granted ...Urban Toronto, is probably more educated about these matters than the average Canadian, but even in the papers, and media, theres a different perception and expectation....

During a Jays game, The car commercial, will show the guy driving up to his condo, and blah blah blah, theres just a shift up there, that I dont really feel has quite caught on here!!!
Here a condo is more a home away from home for rich people, not a housing alternative to the suburbs, and exurbs!!
 
Personally I'm not a big fan of employment growth in the GTA, which to date isn't very concentrated, predominantly in the 905 (less the last few years), and moreover in rather sparse areas of the 905 where no plans to add density exist.

Yes many of the new 'downtowns' have plans to add a lot of commercial, but its not clear if that will materialize to the extent they predict. MCC, of example, essentially sees 0 growth office wise (just like NYCC and SCC), and we'll have to wait and see about downtown Markham / Vaughan.

While there wasn't a big flight from the core as some mentioned, there was a big 'no more growth in the core', in terms of employment, and tons of growth in the 905, in all the wrong places.

I'm sure taxes, or however else you explain the lack of growth in the outer 416, didn't help this at all, many of the employment areas in the outer 416 are, in comparison to the 905, well served by transit.


I think in terms of residential growth, the GTA will be an example the rest of the Continent can be envious of, seriously ... are there any other suburbs with plans like downtown Markham / VCC / MCC / ... ?

But in terms of employment growth and transportation infrastructure were going to stay behind (yes even with the BRTs on Hi-way 7, though its a good start).


In some ways I envy Calgary from an employment perspective, it's extremely core centric, which in my books is a great idea.
 
Taken today.

1-BLOOR-25-12-2011-1.jpg


1-BLOOR-25-12-2011-2.jpg
 
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College Park said:
Where do construction companies dump fill? Old quarries?
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I would expect that some of this fill in the past few years might have gone to build up the flood protection land form at the West Don Lands. Not sure where else they would be dumping this stuff.
 
College Park said:
Where do construction companies dump fill? Old quarries?
Click to expand...

They have been dumping excavated material in the leslie street spit since the 70's
 
I believe that the Leslie Street Spit has been closed to fill for a few years now and that excavated material is currently going to a quarry in the Stouffville area.

42
 
I was under the impression that they still trucked in rubble on weekdays to be mixed with the sludge dredged from the harbour. There are still 2 embayments meant to be filled and capped with cleanfill
 
Far as I know rubble is still coming in to the Spit, although perhaps not at the same rate as in years before. But every time I get out there I see that the place is 'growing' and consolidating.
 
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