BurlOak said:
Toronto subway ridership dropped 25% in the early 1990's. If a similar thing occurs, I don't think that many will be campaigning on spending tons on subways.

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As long as governments are smart and pay of debt when times are good - as was done by Harris, Chretien, Martin and Harper - then there could be some appetite for spending during a recession with the realization that someday ridership will pick up.
Everyone is a Keynesian to some degree - but somehow we forget and let the like of Trudeau #1, Mulroney, Trudeau #2, McGuinty, Wynne, get away with running up debt to artificially improve the short-term.
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Subway ridership is dropping because it is so damned crowded. My daughter became so upset with the Yonge street subway she changed jobs - to a job in Kitchener. She loved her job but hated the commute and I'm pretty sure she'd not the only one. I'm confident that If someone could make the subways human again - i.e. the relief line - ridership would return.
 
syn said:
Not really. These are massive stations with large distances between them.

They're actually great examples of why there haven't been more subways built in Scarborough. Warden opened over 50 years ago and the area remains a low density suburban environment.

@asher__jo is absolutely correct about density and streetcar suburbs. This is why the LRT being above ground in Scarborough is actually a positive thing. It could help lead to more 'urban' environments (pedestrian friendly, etc.).

In any case, density is definitely not an issue as far as the DRL/Ontario Line is concerned.
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As a downtown elite, you can justify and make excuses for your position all you want. I rode that line in the 70's and 80s. Streety is correct, they were busier than Chester, Donlands and Main combined. You are just spouting your "urban vs suburban" BS to try and baffle us. As for Eglington...now that it is down to two traffic lanes each way permanently...well I guess you'll be celebrating
 
Isotack said:
As a downtown elite, you can justify and make excuses for your position all you want. I rode that line in the 70's and 80s. Streety is correct, they were busier than Chester, Donlands and Main combined. You are just spouting your "urban vs suburban" BS to try and baffle us. As for Eglington...now that it is down to two traffic lanes each way permanently...well I guess you'll be celebrating
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I see you spent your Sunday dipping into your buck a beer case. Hope you have some coffee for the morning.
 
Isotack said:
As a downtown elite, you can justify and make excuses for your position all you want. I rode that line in the 70's and 80s. Streety is correct, they were busier than Chester, Donlands and Main combined. You are just spouting your "urban vs suburban" BS to try and baffle us. As for Eglington...now that it is down to two traffic lanes each way permanently...well I guess you'll be celebrating
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What about the rest of them? How far apart are they? How many buses/lines serve these stations?

Is Warden now a dense urban environment after 50+ years?
 
The Technical Advisor assignment for the full line is posted on MERX:

Technical Advisory Services for Ontario Line Subway Project - 19-118 | MERX

www.merx4.merx.com www.merx4.merx.com

Two things, among many others, jump out to me as concerning: the unachievable delivery schedule that has the TA starting by November 2019 and having the RFP for the main design-build contract issued by September 2020 with a full reference concept design, scope, utility issues, property impacts, risk transfer regime, and performance/output specs, etc. completed; and the fact that this assignment is not planned to have a guaranteed maximum price (see Schedule 4) all the way through to end of construction in 2027 ?.

How do IO and Mx get away with procuring these monster consultant assignments, with little to no firm scope and achievable deliverables established, and still satisfy public procurement standards and withstand the scrutiny of the AGO? This will be a cash cow for the hand-picked, likely international consulting firm and their sub-consultant buddies. There are a lot more interesting tidbits in the document that I don't have time to go into right now.

I heard Ben Spurr of The Star will have a piece tomorrow on the concerns from the Riverdale community. Before people dismiss this as the usual Nimby-ism, hopefully they consider the ridiculously compressed timeframe for this assignment and assess how much time and effort Mx can actually put toward consultation, options analysis and mitigation efforts.
 
bbanner102097 said:
The Technical Advisor assignment for the full line is posted on MERX:

Technical Advisory Services for Ontario Line Subway Project - 19-118 | MERX

www.merx4.merx.com www.merx4.merx.com

Two things, among many others, jump out to me as concerning: the unachievable delivery schedule that has the TA starting by November 2019 and having the RFP for the main design-build contract issued by September 2020 with a full reference concept design, scope, utility issues, property impacts, risk transfer regime, and performance/output specs, etc. completed; and the fact that this assignment is not planned to have a guaranteed maximum price (see Schedule 4) all the way through to end of construction in 2027 ?.

How do IO and Mx get away with procuring these monster consultant assignments, with little to no firm scope and achievable deliverables established, and still satisfy public procurement standards and withstand the scrutiny of the AGO? This will be a cash cow for the hand-picked, likely international consulting firm and their sub-consultant buddies. There are a lot more interesting tidbits in the document that I don't have time to go into right now.

I heard Ben Spurr of The Star will have a piece tomorrow on the concerns from the Riverdale community. Before people dismiss this as the usual Nimby-ism, hopefully they consider the ridiculously compressed timeframe for this assignment and assess how much time and effort Mx can actually put toward consultation, options analysis and mitigation efforts.
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Or, perhaps, this schedule is rather normal, and all other transit projects before it were too stretched out?
 
raptor said:
Or, perhaps, this schedule is rather normal, and all other transit projects before it were too stretched out?
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I doubt those with experience and appreciation for the amount of technical, environmental, commercial and legal work that still needs to be done on this project would agree with this. The knock-on effects of having the portals on the west side of the Don on planned USRC projects (train storage and signalling), the Gardiner re-alignment, the East Harbour TOD, flood protection, re-alignment of the Bala Sub into Corktown Commons, etc. have yet to be fully realized (or honestly acknowledged). All of this at the same time that Mx is desperately scrambling to lock down the scope for the Mother-Of-All-DBFOM's, to finalize a coherent RFP document that will retain the interests of the international bidders, their lenders, and their insurers.

Of course, I'm not even flagging the issues abound with the proposed alignment at the other end at Exhibition. This is all just political window-dressing, imo.
 
bbanner102097 said:
I doubt those with experience and appreciation for the amount of technical, environmental, commercial and legal work that still needs to be done on this project would agree with this. The knock-on effects of having the portals on the west side of the Don on planned USRC projects (train storage and signalling), the Gardiner re-alignment, the East Harbour TOD, flood protection, re-alignment of the Bala Sub into Corktown Commons, etc. have yet to be fully realized (or honestly acknowledged). All of this at the same time that Mx is desperately scrambling to lock down the scope for the Mother-Of-All-DBFOM's, to finalize a coherent RFP document that will retain the interests of the international bidders, their lenders, and their insurers.

Of course, I'm not even flagging the issues abound with the proposed alignment at the other end at Exhibition. This is all just political window-dressing, imo.
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I have two words for you: beaurocracy and consultants. Other countries can build transit faster.
 
I predicted this on July 24, but I guessed 60 trains per hour. Not too far off. I lived on DeGrassi for a while in the 80s and can still remember how the GO trains brought life to a stop for a few seconds now and then. But not 80 times an hour.
 
syn said:
Community group doesn’t want Ontario Line trains going by every 90 seconds
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It's never going to be built, so don't sweat it. We're now 30% or 439 days into DoFo's 1,017 day tenure as premier. In that time nothing has been formally planned, no environmental reviews or feasibility studies have been completed, nor have the past approved DRL plans been reviewed and formally adjusted.

Halloween marks the halfway point of DoFo's government, let's see if anything is underway anywhere in railed transit.
 
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