Why would it be silly to run above grade? They also don't even examine the idea of putting Steeles West above ground. All it would take is a little bit of the UPS parking lot. Even with the plan they suggested, it would save close to two kilometres of tunnelling -- potentially hundreds of millions of dollars.
 
Ridership at that station will be solely based on bus transfers and park and ride with little to no walk-in potential.
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I'll be able to take the train to visit my various relatives residing in the cemetery across the street.
 
Ed - that's if you don't hit by a car and die and end up in that cemetery trying to cross the Park 'N Ride Lot, the access road over the creek, then 6 lanes of Jane Street traffic speeding onto the 407....
 
Very interesting information about the transfers. But anecdotal evidence is enough for me to show that 2 decades of tri-level transfers at Kennedy is a bad idea. The idea of doing this again at Don Mills is crazy and lazy.

But back to the topic of Spadina north of York, I agree with the comments made about 407 transit-way station. Surely we have learned from the stations along the Allen or from other jurisdictions where commuter rail is connected with a highway. It alienates riders and makes it difficult for passangers to access the station-stop.

With the exception of the VCC station (which planners in Vaughan/York Region/VIVA had extensive literature to support), there does not seem to be a mention of Transit Oriented Development (TOD) in this plan. I think this is a huge mistake, one that will forever dog the success of the extension. Development and transit need to be coordinated with each other, and the 407 station flies directly in the face of this core principle. Another core principle is creating attractive, save, and accessible stations. A station atop a highway fails to meet even a fraction of this requirement.
 
it doesn't *need* to be, but it would be best to design it to ALLOW for it. Even moving the alignment here 150 metres to the west would open up space for development fronting onto Jane around the station and help create a more 24-hour space, not just a funnel for commuters in and out. Instead, we have a parking lot bounding it in on the west, the 407, and smack against Jane Street and the cemetery with no devleopment potential
 
What are those planners in Vaughanland thinking? They're not thinking, they're rubbing their hands in glee at the increased property values thanks to the Sorbara Subway.
 
No wonder subways are so expensive in Toronto. They'll only build it if it's the best, most expensive possible option!
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To be a bit more accurate, the TTC will only build it if it's the best, most expensive possible option. And they'll waste tens of thousands of dollars going around in circles before they pick that option too.
 
But those are operational requirements. It was the TTC that said that operationally, underground is the only option because an elevated route would require slightly inconveniently-located storage tracks.

I don't think it would be possible to have development fronting on Jane since the creek runs right through there.
 
unimaginative2 said:
If there's anything the TTC loves, it's redundant tunnels.
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Is that why so much of the current subway network is above-ground?

Maybe the TTC could have more seriosuly studied the possibility of above ground alignment as you suggest, but I think the current alignment is pretty good already.
 
The TTC mindset has changed since the old days. Imagine the TTC/City allowing the subway above ground today through Rosedale? In the old days Sheppard at Leslie would have been above ground just like at Keele Station
 
doady said:
Is that why so much of the current subway network is above-ground?

Maybe the TTC could have more seriosuly studied the possibility of above ground alignment as you suggest, but I think the current alignment is pretty good already.
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Doady, that's the whole point. It's not just pretty good -- it's great. There's no question that it's the best possible alignment. The catch is that it may cost hundreds of millions (we don't know exactly how much -- there was no examination of relative costs!) more than an elevated alternative, for very minor benefits. Those are hundreds of millions that could be spent on building another route or adding stations.

The only bits of the current subway that are above ground were built in the 50s and early 60s, with the exception of a few very brief segments that were built in established corridors. Unfortunately, the TTC now seems to have abandoned the idea of building above ground even when the government already owns a corridor.
 
In defence of the wisdom of "underground", imagine what the Bloor-Danforth corridor would be like today with an open-air ditch parallel to the north, thru the Annex, thru Bloor West, thru Greektown, etc...
 
In defence of above-ground on the York Extension, the Annex is hardly a hydro corridor in Vaughan. The section through Greektown also was an open trench that was covered over. All the damage was done, and much of the footprint of the line was replaced with parking, station buildings and other city facilities.
 
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