[TheTigerMaster]

At the end of the day not that big of a deal considering it is an investment that will be paying off for many years.

I don't think so. IIRC, North of YU, this thing will have a rather large negative impact on the TTC budget due to the low volume of passengers.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's quite backward.

This is a sink-hole that we will be paying INTO for many years; around $30M/year for operations subsidy.

This line isn't going to create $1B in new economic activity per year (10% in personal/business taxes collected is $100M, to roughly equal the ongoing $30M in operations and $75M/year for interest on the capital investment).

This line is a very poor investment. Lots of happy feelings (like Scarborough) but very poor from the financial side.

+1. The thing should have never been approved in the first place.

 

[nfitz]

This is completely unacceptable. This is a huge amount of money. To put it in perspective, nearly 6 km of LRT could be built with this.

Is the article correct though?

It claims that it was originally expected to cost $1.5 billion and "ballooned" to $2.5 billion. However long before construction started, over 7 years ago, TTC said it would cost $2.63 billion - http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com.../March_26_2008/Other/Toronto_York_Spadina.jsp

When was it supposed to cost $1.5 billion? When it only went to Steeles?

Also, $2.63 billion was based on year of spending, assuming construction was complete in 2015. This was equivalent to $2.1 billion 2006$. What is the current cost, and what would that be in 2006$.

I don't think we have enough information to prosecute the innocent yet ...

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I was talking about the $400 Million budget overrun. That could build 6 km of light rail.

 

[nfitz]

I was talking about the $400 Million budget overrun. That could build 6 km of light rail.

Though the article talking about a $400 million overrun also seems to have some strange $ amounts in it. Is all we are seeing the effect of comparing 2017$ to 2006$?

 

[Panontario]

Over $400 million over budget:

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/03/06/spadina-subway-extension-400m-over-budget.html

Wow. I can't believe that our government and some public members constantly attack teachers and doctors for various things when we have liars, thieves and criminals working in the government and construction companies! Unbelievable how our public gets priorities wrong!

 

[salsa]

Over $400 million over budget:

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/03/06/spadina-subway-extension-400m-over-budget.html

Both he and Tory say the city may have to consider opening the subway only as far as York University to start. That’s where the bulk of the ridership is expected to be initially.

But that’s a non-starter for Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca, who represents the riding of Vaughan and has long championed the line.

“We made a contribution of $900 million to the Move Ontario Trust and that was a contribution that was delivered with the expectation that the project would be running all the way to York Region and that’s what we anticipate will occur,” he said.

Good grief I'm so sick and tired of these subway champions. So what if the rest of the subway opens a bit later. Be patient damn it.

Toronto and York Region would be on the hook for those additional costs. But given the longstanding, extensive issues with the project it wouldn’t be unreasonable for Ottawa and Queen’s Park to chip in a commensurate amount, said Colle.

And just like with the Union station overruns, the other governments believe that it's not their job to "bail out the city". Tory better start thinking about raising those taxes, because so far no one is giving money to Toronto as Tory expected.

 

[nfitz]

Wow. I can't believe that our government and some public members constantly attack teachers and doctors for various things when we have liars, thieves and criminals working in the government and construction companies! Unbelievable how our public gets priorities wrong!

I see nothing in that article about thievery, criminality, or lying. Is such over-the-top drama really necessary?

 

[Panontario]

I see nothing in that article about thievery, criminality, or lying. Is such over-the-top drama really necessary?

Why do you think the price keeps on skyrocketing? Poor management as a result of incompetence is just a part of the problem. Look no further than Quebec...

 

[Palma]

At the end of the day not that big of a deal considering it is an investment that will be paying off for many years.

Really? Just like they must have said for the Sheppard subway that has been running. Just end it at York University. And in the future, if the demand comes, then build it into Vaughan. Who cares if it's a non starter for Deluca.

 

[TOareaFan]

Really? Just like they must have said for the Sheppard subway that has been running. Just end it at York University. And in the future, if the demand comes, then build it into Vaughan. Who cares if it's a non starter for Deluca.

Isn't it largely built? What would it cost to "unbuild' the part you are dismissing?

 

[Palma]

Isn't it largely built? What would it cost to "unbuild' the part you are dismissing?

So why then the big outcry if the rest of the subway north of York University opens later?

 

[TOareaFan]

So why then the big outcry if the rest of the subway north of York University opens later?

I have no idea...I was responding to your suggestion that only "if demand comes" would you build it into Vaughan....I think the time for that decision passed a long time ago as a significant part of that has already been built.

On another note: you also said "who cares if it's a non starter for Deluca"....everyone should care....he is the MoT and the province provided a bit of cash for this project.....changing the project scope/design/timing gives the province every right to re-look at the funding....no?

 

[aquateam]

On another note: you also said "who cares if it's a non starter for Deluca"....everyone should care....he is the MoT and the province provided a bit of cash for this project.....changing the project scope/design/timing gives the province every right to re-look at the funding....no?

It seems kind of childish though. "No one gets new transit until my riding gets transit". It's not like this is a deliberate attempt by the TTC to deprive Vaughn of transit. The difficulty with the contractors wasn't anticipated.

 

[TOareaFan]

It seems kind of childish though. "No one gets new transit until my riding gets transit". It's not like this is a deliberate attempt by the TTC to deprive Vaughn of transit. The difficulty with the contractors wasn't anticipated.

That is not what I said at all.......I responded to a comment to not build the Vaughan part of it until demand is there and pointed out that much of that part was built already. I don't oppose phased opening if it is possible (there seems to be some doubt as to whether that is possible)....heck, I was one of the folks asking out loud (in 2014) if it would be possible to get a direct service from Downsview to York U open in time for the pan am games.....what I would oppose, at this point, would be a partial opening and a long term mothballing of the Vaughan part (as implied by the statement "if the demand comes, then build it into Vaughan" that I responded to).

As for the statement that we should not care about DeLuca's thoughts on it.....that is not a riding thing at all......he represents the province and they partially funded a project that they felt had regional importance and based their decision/contribution on those plans....so, regardless of what riding he represents, we should care about the thoughts/opinions of a rep of a senior level of government who provided so much of the funding.