[Asterix]

But if the speed increase is negligible then best not to spend all that money on the ROW, use the money for a new streetcar route or something. And the St. Clair ROW could have had B/D equivalent spacing and still be local enough.

A large chunk of the money was spent on street beautification projects and utility work whose connection with the ROW is only the fact that if they were tearing up the street to do one thing, might as well do a couple others.

As mentioned by other posters, the main intent of the ROW wasn't so much to increase speed, but the reliability. Your experience with the streetcar is significantly improved if you know that one will arrive every say, 4 minutes rather than three 12 minutes from now.

 

[kettal]

On another note, I was lucky to have a ride on the line with a TTC employee. He explained how the signal priority works and, lo and behold, it does work. Without having to stop and pick up passengers, we went all the way from Lansdowne to Bathurst without having to stop for a red light (seriously). Though I suspect that was mostly luck at Dufferin and Oakwood.

I asked why I had to wait for red lights previous times when I rode the line. He stated that when streetcars bunch it messes up the system. From how I understand it, there are loop detectors after each platform which ensure that the following light is held green for the streetcar until that streetcar is detected by another loop detector on the other side of the intersection. When streetcars get bunched, the first streetcar is picked up by the loop detector at the end of the platform as it moves forward. Then the second one is picked up by the same loop detector which makes the system believe there is an error because it is left wondering why the streetcar is leaving the platform when the next signal it should be recieving is from the streetcar passing through the intersection.

Anyway, that's how I understood it.

Loop detectors? Have they never heard of GPS?

 

[spider]

Yesterday I was stopped at an intersection on St. Clair in the left turn lane facing all red traffic signals. A streetcar pulled up beside me on my left and stopped, there were passengers waiting at the far side platform. I remarked to my wife that if all this right-of-way stuff made any sense the next cycle of traffic signals should display green for the streetcar and straight through traffic to my right and a delayed left turn green to complete the cycle. Guess what, the first green signal was for the advanced left turners like me making the streetcar and transit riders wait. DUH!

 

[W. K. Lis]

Yesterday I was stopped at an intersection on St. Clair in the left turn lane facing all red traffic signals. A streetcar pulled up beside me on my left and stopped, there were passengers waiting at the far side platform. I remarked to my wife that if all this right-of-way stuff made any sense the next cycle of traffic signals should display green for the streetcar and straight through traffic to my right and a delayed left turn green to complete the cycle. Guess what, the first green signal was for the advanced left turners like me making the streetcar and transit riders wait. DUH!

That is the most irritating part of the St. Clair right-of-way. Why do 1.3 (or in your case 2.0, maximum 6) people priority over the streetcar with its 46 seated passengers (with standees it would be 132, crush load would be more). Keeps getting ignored because traffic signals is the responsibility of the roads department, and their priority is cars.

 

[rbt]

Keeps getting ignored because traffic signals is the responsibility of the roads department, and their priority is cars.

It's not ignored exactly. Works department sites safety reasons when it is brought up and that trumps any thoughts of transport efficiencies. We, as North Americans, seldom go against the safety argument as a group particularly when it appears to benefit the majority (drivers versus transit users).

Safety is argued that drivers will go anyway since they are used to/expecting to having an advanced left turn. If we did a trial at a single intersection, I have no doubt the accident rate would increase and they would be proven correct.

Perhaps Metrolinx could make some headway in provincial legislation to change the default across the board (eliminates safety argument) and would benefit Hamilton, Peel Region, York Region, and KW transit users as they all will have ROWs shortly.

 

[nfitz]

Loop detectors? Have they never heard of GPS?

GPS isn't infallible. All you need is a couple of missing satellites or a poor line of sight (trees and buildings) and the accuracy drops way down. Hard-wired equipment will be far more reliable.

 

[EnviroTO]

The reason there is a safety issue is that the streetcar lights are for the most part a pair of regular stoplights instead of an entirely different design which can't be confused as a stoplight.

Drivers wouldn't go when two red dots turn to two white dots, but when drivers see the current TTC signal with red lights at the top turning off and the bottom lights lighting up they instinctively assume the lights are dedicated to turning.

 

[CDL.TO]

Loop detectors? Have they never heard of GPS?

GPS has plenty of accuracy problems, particularily in dense urban settings. It would also require a system with wireless signals (probably cellular) to facilitate communication between streetcars and traffic signals.

GPS isn't a bad idea, but it still has its issues and is undoubtably more complicated.

 

[GraphicMatt]

It's fair to say generally though that the Transportation Department's Transit Priority technology is outdated, though, isn't it? I've got to believe there's more effective solutions out there that they could implement. If they actually cared.

 

[CDL.TO]

It's fair to say generally though that the Transportation Department's Transit Priority technology is outdated, though, isn't it? I've got to believe there's more effective solutions out there that they could implement. If they actually cared.

I don't think the technology is outdated at all. I think it's more a question of what level of priority they want to give to transit, and what is reasonably feasible while still meeting the need to keep traffic in the city moving.

 

[rbt]

The reason there is a safety issue is that the streetcar lights are for the most part a pair of regular stoplights instead of an entirely different design which can't be confused as a stoplight.

Indeed. Though you will also be aware of which department gets to choose the in-street signaling for transit ROWs at the moment. The province could neatly cut them off by selecting a province wide standard via Metrolinx for all new projects.

 

[kettal]

York region has this transit advance signal

 

[W. K. Lis]

Public transit signals used outside Ontario:

"go straight ahead", "go left", "go right", "go in any direction" (like the "green" of a normal traffic light), "stop, unless the emergency brake is needed" (equal to "yellow"), and "stop" (equal to "red").

Ontario only uses the "go straight ahead" transit signal and not the others.

 

[EnviroTO]

Interesting that the stoplight it is sitting on is a turn lane signal but they used the light which is the European standard for going straight ahead.

 

[Jaye101]

The lights are labeled TRANSIT SIGNAL inbetween both of them. I doubt drivers look at this signal. It takes time for people to get used to anything in their city.