St Lawrence Market North

Developer: City of Toronto
Architect: Rogers Stirk Harbour + Partners, Adamson Associates Architects
  
Address: 92 Front St E, Toronto, Canada
Category: Institutional, Commercial (Office, Retail), Public Space / Park
Status: ConstructionCrane(s): 0
Height: 83 ft / 25.30 mStoreys: 5 storeys
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DSCToronto said:
It will be like the old building (and the tent) where the City would be overjoyed to rent it on weekdays but gets no takers. One day there is supposed to be a coffee shop on south west corner but I have no idea if they had time (ha, ha) to find a tenant.
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I guess the only difference is that this will be an occupied building above and the ground floor “prime real estate” will be empty with limited seating and without anything inviting. I can’t imagine the City spending much of their own money to make it inviting on a daily or weekly basis. Yoga classes? Toronto Symphony - would that be too loud? Buskers? Meditation? Art classes? The coffee shop would be permanent. The rest of the arena….. hey, floor hockey, roller skating, shuffle board…..
 
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Realized I went by this yesterday and didn’t give it a second thought. Now I’m wondering if it’s just going to be completely underwhelming by the time it’s public access.

Just opening this thread and seeing the first post was in 2006. Has the drag diminished anyone else’s excitement in the project? We’ve all seen the outside for years by now, and I’m not sure how much it will animate the street during the week.

I feel like opening month is just gonna be a lot of cameras pointed upward, but everyone is gonna step inside and be like. “Huh.Ground level just feels like a lobby”. Market Saturdays should feel lively I guess.
 
mburrrrr said:
I guess the only difference is that this will be an occupied building above and the ground floor “prime real estate” will be empty with limited seating and without anything inviting. I can’t imagine the City spending much of their own money to make it inviting on a daily or weekly basis. Yoga classes? Toronto Symphony - would that be too loud? Buskers? Meditation? Art classes? The coffee shop would be permanent. The rest of the arena….. hey, floor hockey, roller skating, shuffle board…..
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Perhaps before the permanent one goes in they could get one of those vintage van coffee trucks to help add a sense of movement and activity to the space.

Some seating and tables for eating at would be nice even during the market, so I hope they can come up with an idea for moveable furniture that could still exist in the space during the non-market days too.
 
DSCToronto said:
No doubt you will all be surprised to hear that I have now received a response to my FOI Request about the trumpet colours.

Further to our letter of February 2, 2022, I am replying to your access request under the Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act. You have requested access to the following information: “Any emails, meeting minutes, or written records concerning the decision to change the colour of the 'ventilation trumpets' on the new north St. Lawrence Market from red to grey, including: 1) who made the decision to change the colour and design feature under what authority, and 2) what was the cost or cost savings from this change.

Records search from January 1, 2021, to February 29, 2024.”

Staff of the Corporate Real Estate Management Division has conducted a search for records responsive to your request. This decision reflects the results of their search.

Responsive Records

Staff of the Corporate Real Estate Management has advised that the requested information is not readily available in either paper or electronic formats. More specifically, they indicated that the decision to change the colour of the "trumpets” was made during the development of construction drawings which spread over 12 months of time, and there is no way to determine when the decision was made. Therefore, staff have to manually search all records, all minutes, all drawings and design specifications - hard copies included - in order to pinpoint when the decision was made. Furthermore, it has been estimated that it will take an average of 30 seconds to review each record (email) to determine if it is responsive to the request. However, the abovementioned program area provided the following information in response to your inquiries.

1. When did this change occur?• The decision to change the colour of the air intake trumpets happened during the development of the contract documents. This spanned a 12-month period whereby many discussions between the City and the Design Architect, RSHP, took place. The decision to change the colour of the trumpets was ultimately made by RSHP.

2. Why was the colour changed?• The decision to change the colour of the air intake trumpets from red to grey occurred during RHSP’s review of external and internal finish colours. They concluded that the colour of the air intake trumpets should be more neutral to align with the more vibrant colours for key architectural components around the trumpets.

3. Were there any costs associated with the change?• No

They also told me that if I wish to proceed and obtain copies of any minutes or emails, the estimated cost will be $1350. Oddly enough I will not proceed further - though I still think the change was a poor idea!!
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This one has been bugging me for a while. The comment:

2. Why was the colour changed?• The decision to change the colour of the air intake trumpets from red to grey occurred during RHSP’s review of external and internal finish colours. They concluded that the colour of the air intake trumpets should be more neutral to align with the more vibrant colours for key architectural components around the trumpets.

while literally and technically correct, I find in unbelievable that the RHSP review would take place without any client participation and sign-off on the changes that were made during the review. So while it was RHSP's review, in that they would have led the process, I believe that it was undertaken with participation of City (client) representatives, and that the initiative for this particular change would have originated from the City's side during this review process.

The response from the City did not state that the RHSP staff were the sole participants in the review, nor that RHSP staff initiated this change, just that the change took place during the RHSP review.
 
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DSCToronto said:
It will be like the old building (and the tent) where the City would be overjoyed to rent it on weekdays but gets no takers. One day there is supposed to be a coffee shop on south west corner but I have no idea if they had time (ha, ha) to find a tenant.
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Seems pointless calling it a "market" when there is no real market...
 
AHK said:
This one has been bugging me for a while. The comment:

2. Why was the colour changed?• The decision to change the colour of the air intake trumpets from red to grey occurred during RHSP’s review of external and internal finish colours. They concluded that the colour of the air intake trumpets should be more neutral to align with the more vibrant colours for key architectural components around the trumpets.

while literally and technically correct, I find in unbelievable that the RHSP review would take place without any client participation and sign-off on the changes that were made during the review. So while it was RHSP's review, in that they would have lead the process, I believe that it was undertaken with participation of City (client) representatives, and that the initiative for this particular change would have originated from the City's side during this review process.

The response from the City did not state that the RHSP staff were the sole participants in the review, nor that RHSP staff initiated this change, just that the change took place during the RHSP review.
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Yes, it was clearly bullshit but I was not ready to pay the significant cost to get meeting minutes and other 'proof'. I understand (if not approve of) value engineering for cost reasons but red paint or black paint cost the same!
 

Rebuilding the heartbeat of Old Toronto

Historic St. Lawrence Market welcomes new building to promote culture, arts and civic engagement
www.theglobeandmail.com

Only new info is the potential for some sort of event space on the second floor as well as an opening around Doors Open. I can’t imagine what excuse there is for not opening any part of this building until then.
 
rdaner said:

Rebuilding the heartbeat of Old Toronto

Historic St. Lawrence Market welcomes new building to promote culture, arts and civic engagement
www.theglobeandmail.com

Only new info is the potential for some sort of event space on the second floor as well as an opening around Doors Open. I can’t imagine what excuse there is for not opening any part of this building until then.
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Is incompetence an excuse or a reason?
 
rdaner said:

Rebuilding the heartbeat of Old Toronto

Historic St. Lawrence Market welcomes new building to promote culture, arts and civic engagement
www.theglobeandmail.com

Only new info is the potential for some sort of event space on the second floor as well as an opening around Doors Open. I can’t imagine what excuse there is for not opening any part of this building until then.
Click to expand...
It would appear the massive ground floor space is being used to store components for the construction of other parts. Logistically it probably makes things cheaper and easier.

It's not the best reason, but it is a reason.
 
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