[RedRocket191]

Fair enough.

To Metrolinx I say this: 80 km/hr is not possible on that line without either massive destruction of conservation land to straighten the tracks, reinstating previously removed tracks in residential Don Mills, or tunneling. All options would either cost billions of dollars, or be impossible due to NIMBYism. 80 km/hr? Fat chance.

Through the valley, yes it's unlikely.

If it took the connecting track to Leaside station then those speeds are possible. I'll look into those distances and report back with some estimates. Normally I would say no due to the proximity to houses on the connecting track right-of-way, but I'm in a blockbusting mood today.

 

[urbanfan89]

Hopefully GO Transit will have discovered more new fangled methods to eliminate the problems of frequent trains along the Leaside line.

They're called noise barriers, electrification, and rail modernization.

 

[cowpie]

and further to that, to place it ahead of the Yonge Subway extension to Richmond Hill.

Hmm well I think that sucks. Toronto kind of hijacks the process right at the end to possibly kill the subway north. Yonge and Highway 7 was promised a subway 10 or 15 years ago and it never came; who's to say it would be different this time. That's why I kind of agree with the Councillor who said "the door is closed" on the DRL issue, because although my issue is not with the needed DRL, but with the delay factor. Apparently the TTC didn't even want a DRL soon until a few days ago.

I think a better way would to build both at once and if capacity issues are so enormous, start every third train at RHC instead of the current plan of every second train. That would make up for the dearth of public transit building in the 1990s.

 

[nfitz]

Toronto kind of hijacks the process right at the end to possibly kill the subway north. Yonge and Highway 7 was promised a subway 10 or 15 years ago and it never came; who's to say it would be different this time.

Your kidding me right? Toronto was promised this subway in the 1940s! And many more times since then, particularly in the late 1980s.

10 to 15 years ago??? Good grief, there hasn't been a subway built in the main part of City of Toronto in 42 years!

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Clearly, both subway projects are needed.

 

[cowpie]

Your kidding me right? Toronto was promised this subway in the 1940s! And many more times since then, particularly in the late 1980s.

10 to 15 years ago??? Good grief, there hasn't been a subway built in the main part of City of Toronto in 42 years!

Then why wasn't the TTC or City Council pushing for a DRL until a few days ago?

Some response from Metrolinx:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/01/30/8200081-sun.html

Metrolinx stands pat

By BRYN WEESE, SUN MEDIA

Last Updated: 30th January 2009, 4:25am

Metrolinx's top boss says he isn't keen to re-open the newly-minted regional transportation plan anytime soon, despite a move by Toronto city council to change its priorities.

"All of the municipalities had lots of chances for input. I'm not especially anxious to reopen the plan at this point," said Rob MacIsaac, chairman of the Metrolinx board.

"Our plan is not written in stone, but it shouldn't be written in plastic either. There has to be some certainty, so I think for at least the next five years we're going to carry on and -- when it's time to review the plan -- we'll take a look at all these requests," he said.

...

 

[doady]

Metrolinx have no clue what transit is. Time to abolish this useless organization.

 

[jks]

Metrolinx have no clue what transit is. Time to abolish this useless organization.

I hope you're kidding!!

 

[lead82]

Metrolinx has a great point. Toronto was too late in it's request for a change.

However, this does not mean that DRL is dead. Au contraire, if the Yonge extension gets funding, we must ensure that millions of dollars are not wasted on Bloor-Yonge renovation but rather directed to the DRL. If that means post-poning some Transit-City lines, then so be it.

 

[MisterF]

Doady, it was Metrolinx that finally put the DRL back in Toronto's official transit plans, not the TTC. Metrolinx did the background research and ridership projections that showed just how compelling the case for a DRL is.

Then why wasn't the TTC or City Council pushing for a DRL until a few days ago?

I don't think the TTC is pushing for it at all. Council is directing the TTC to study it. Who knows what happens behind the scenes to get the ball rolling - maybe it's a simple matter of Council finally disagreeing with the TTC's priorities.

 

[cowpie]

Doady, it was Metrolinx that finally put the DRL back in Toronto's official transit plans, not the TTC. Metrolinx did the background research and ridership projections that showed just how compelling the case for a DRL is.


I don't think the TTC is pushing for it at all. Council is directing the TTC to study it. Who knows what happens behind the scenes to get the ball rolling - maybe it's a simple matter of Council finally disagreeing with the TTC's priorities.

I guess so. I just can't help feeling some type of motive here, especially in regards to how averse the TTC itself was to inter-regionalism with the buses to Downsview, seen in the leaked Metrolinx "fare integration" report. If it turns out to be a good thing, all the better.

EDIT: nfitz, sorry I meant to imply moving the DRL from the 25-year plan to the 15-year plan.

 

[nfitz]

Then why wasn't the TTC or City Council pushing for a DRL until a few days ago?

Well they were - TTC chair said last year that construction wouldn't start before 2018.

But it changed because TTC or City Council had no intention of extending the Yonge subway north of Finch until a few days ago.

 

[rbt]

I don't think the TTC is pushing for it at all. Council is directing the TTC to study it. Who knows what happens behind the scenes to get the ball rolling

TTC doesn't want DRL likely due to the operations costs.

Pumping capacity on the Yonge line only adds cost of drivers and maintenance workers (more trains). Stations, tunnel maintenance, etc. are all fixed costs.

Yonge line subsidizes a good portion of the network today but with capacity enhancements within the line itself, it could subsidize it to a much larger extent.

 

[cowpie]

Not sure whether to put this in the DRL thread or this thread because, as the article says, they both seem to be wrapped up in each other at the moment....

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...en-momentum-for-the-downtown-relief-line.aspx

Sudden momentum for the Downtown Relief Line
Posted: January 30, 2009, 8:16 PM by Rob Roberts
By Allison Hanes, National Post

It’s a 20-year-old idea with a utilitarian name, but in the space of a week the so-called Downtown Relief Line has suddenly recaptured the public imagination and catapulted itself into the realm of possibility.

....
But Michael Fenn, CEO of Metrolinx, suggested yesterday it may still be open, if only a crack.

The regional transportation plan is a “living document” that the board has the power to amend, he said, adding any consideration of the DRL would likely occur while figuring out how to take pressure off the already overcrowded Yonge line.

“I think we need to do this one step at a time,” said Mr. Fenn. “We need to know what the capacity limitations might conceivably be and … what capacity might be created in the existing system, what role GO Transit might play and other system improvements before we start looking at grander considerations.”

The Downtown Relief Line’s fate may indeed be wrapped up in expansion of the Yonge line, as unpopular an idea as that is at Toronto City Hall.
....

 

[Chuck]

The Downtown Relief Line’s fate may indeed be wrapped up in expansion of the Yonge line, as unpopular an idea as that is at Toronto City Hall.

Ironic, no? Not only can we thank York Region for bringing the subway to York University and making it possible to extend NYCC to Steeles, but we can now thank York Region for potentially fast tracking the DRL. 100% of the subway construction that will occur in the 416 area between 2000 and 2020 will be a direct result of York Region's transit plan.

And what about Toronto Council? Well, it managed to bring us a bastardized transit line on St. Clair, and possibly a few streetcar lines on the suburbs.

Perhaps Mary Francis Turner, head of York Region Transit, should run for chair of the TTC. She'd get my vote!