299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
...I wouldn't put it beyond the TTC to put separate readers for both Presto and TTC Smart Cards on each platform and vehicle, just to make a point.
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- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
...I wouldn't put it beyond the TTC to put separate readers for both Presto and TTC Smart Cards on each platform and vehicle, just to make a point.
rbt
Senior Member
Where do you guys find these tourists who demand a smart card but refuse to take transit? The trip into town from the airport and back out again will eat up most of the $20 without any TTC travel at all.
Best package I've seen was MTR; 2 airport trips (in and out of town) + 3 days travel for $300HKD -- roughly $50 CDN.
Day trippers or americans who drive into town and use the system once or twice will still use cash and complain about hotel parking charges (roughly $20 per day).
Day trippers/weekenders from anywhere in Southern or Eastern Ontario will already have a card; especially if the same media is used for road tolls and other government micropayment services (on street parking, park and conservation area access fees, etc.).
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DavidH
Senior Member
Not going to happen. Unless there is a huge shift in something in the next year or so, TTC will have to go with Presto.
Let's back this up a bit - what evidence do you have that a TTC smart card system is even getting consideration, let alone being "developed"? "Supposedly" falls squarely in the category of hearsay. On the other hand, we have powerful public evidence that the TTC will be using Presto on the TC lines, if nowhere else, and simple logic dictates that they will not implement Presto on TC and something else everywhere else in the system.
EDIT: one other thing I've just noticed. The Metrolinx language says that the "introduction and adoption" of Presto will be requried for the new projects. It's not clear to me whether this requirement is limited to the new lines, as this verbiage seems to imply systemwide adoption rather than "implementation" on a specific line. Until this language is clarified in public somewhere we won't be sure, but I suspect this means that the TTC has been ordered to implement it systemwide.
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kettal
Banned
Where did you get this from?
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
I was being sarcastic on the comment regarding duplicate readers on platforms. Excuse the lack of a wink. But two separate systems may still be in the works.
Kettal, the approved motion from the June 2007 Commission Meeting:
In addition, there was a RFP I worked on just a few months ago where the language explicitly talked about a "TTC Smart Card", and not Presto.
Kettal, the approved motion from the June 2007 Commission Meeting:
In addition, there was a RFP I worked on just a few months ago where the language explicitly talked about a "TTC Smart Card", and not Presto.
Eug
Senior Member
?
Whenever I go to a new city, I often take public transit a few times. I use whatever is convenient and makes sense in terms of cost. I often end up spending about 10-15 bucks, depending on where I'm going and what I'm doing.
If there is an inexpensive card based system, I use it. If there isn't I don't. If I were a visitor to Toronto, that would mean tokens. Why would I want to spend $25 if I only plan on making 10-15 bucks worth of trips?
My point is something like Presto will be useful for existing frequent users, but does not encourage infrequent users to use it. There has to be a parallel system in place, and I just hope the TTC doesn't make this parallel system intensive in terms of human resources. Maybe that will be the "TTC Smart Card". If so, I hope they have a better intro pricing structure than Presto for casual users. Remember, it's not the tourists "demanding" these cards. It should be the transit providers encouraging use of automated systems, to save on labour costs.
As for airport to downtown public transit, there is essentially is none that is tourist friendly at this time, so that's a moot point. Maybe in 10 years, but not now.
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rbt
Senior Member
Me too. I don't see why having to load a reasonable minimum value onto the card during purchase is going to be a deterrent to purchase for tourists.
Filling out the form with personal information (funds are in the DB, not on the card -- card is replaceable) is likely to be much more of an issue for tourists.
Eug
Senior Member
golodhendil
Active Member
I think as how the Presto system will be when it is first implemented, there is already very little incentive for tourists to use it - the entire TTC is basically out of reach and I daresay it is the TTC (subway, streetcars, perhaps buses), especially the downtown routes, that tourists would use the most rather than the suburban buses or the largely rush-hour-inbound-only GO trains, except perhaps the GO Lakeshore lines (which are expensive enough to exhaust the credit in 3-5 trips, and if a tourist is only going to use it once or twice then there is little reason for them to get a stored-value card specifically for that anyway). If/when TTC finally comes on board, the setup might have been modified already.
As for occasional local users, as I said the $25 is not a reasonable deterrent anyway.
As for occasional local users, as I said the $25 is not a reasonable deterrent anyway.
DavidH
Senior Member
Until we actually see evidence of funds being allocated to the development of a parallel system or an RFP for such development, it's just political language aimed at putting pressure on the province. In particular, anything from a few months ago is from BEFORE the TTC was ordered to use Presto.
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CDL.TO
Moderator
Thanks for the quote. No wonder I was confused about why there should be a problem.
You right that clearly this won't work and they'll have to either force people to tap-out after all or develop some other method.
Voltz
Senior Member
It might still work, since a passenger who goes from Port Credit to Union and back for their daily regular commute would still have to tap in at the beginning of each trip, and would therefor have to set their regular trip for between those two stations. But there is still some room for abuse.
But since this is the Transit City thread, I would wonder where the Presto card readers should be installed, in the vehicles or at the platforms? I would say the platforms, along with some kind of paper ticket dispenser for people who want to pay cash. If they where to be installed on board the LRT's they would need more (one for each door) and it may slow down boarding.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
They are going to need to change the default GO trip aspect of Presto. It is impossible to enforce the way they are suggesting because if you are caught outside your normal trip you can simply claim you haven't tapped out yet but never actually do it.
GO either needs to have the maximum fare as the default OR have the trip declared when boarding in order to make it enforcable. A possible way to declare the trip would be a touch screen device when you tap the Presto and then select the destination station on the map (similar to the ticket vending machines).
GO either needs to have the maximum fare as the default OR have the trip declared when boarding in order to make it enforcable. A possible way to declare the trip would be a touch screen device when you tap the Presto and then select the destination station on the map (similar to the ticket vending machines).
kEiThZ
Superstar
^ The way I understood was that you have to tap in to use GO. If that's the case, could they not check simply that you have tapped in? They don't necessarily have to check that you have paid the full fare...that's what tapping out is for. I trust that there would be some kind of incentive (or punishment) to ensure that you tapped out at the end of your journey.
CDL.TO
Moderator
DavidH pointed out that the Prestocard website stated that there would be no "tapping out" on GO for pass holders travelling on their "regular" route. Hence the issue.
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