Dan416
Senior Member
To me anyone who says increased speed or getting people out of their cars are not priorities loses any credibility with me. Those are the two most important things in my opinion. A distant priority is encouraging development.
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- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I think there are two points being made: (1) the TTC can't currently fit people getting out of their cars, and (2) that the benefit of any expense can be determined through thoughtful cost-benefit analysis.
People get to the subway station and hear about service delays and the system has no redundancy. Every day thousands and thousands at Bloor trying to go south watch subways which are already packed when they enter the station go by, often 3 or 4, before they can fit on the subway car. Likewise there are bus routes which are packed and they can't maintain their schedule worth crap. Should the priority be luring new riders when it is obvious that the current ridership is not handled in (a) service quality, (b) schedule reliability, (c) capacity, and (d) maintenance.
Politicians draw lines on a map and the TTC or Metrolinx instead of trying a hundred or more permutations of possible routes they only analyse the ones that politicians have come up with. The routes and the technology isn't determined by analysis of existing zoning and existing demand coupled with natural growth, instead it is determined by someone wanting something specific to go somewhere specific possibly with the promise of future re-zoning and intensification which is not guaranteed to occur.... and even with the imaginary zoning it still doesn't make sense through cost-benefit analysis.
This is no way to be running the TTC and Metrolinx.
People get to the subway station and hear about service delays and the system has no redundancy. Every day thousands and thousands at Bloor trying to go south watch subways which are already packed when they enter the station go by, often 3 or 4, before they can fit on the subway car. Likewise there are bus routes which are packed and they can't maintain their schedule worth crap. Should the priority be luring new riders when it is obvious that the current ridership is not handled in (a) service quality, (b) schedule reliability, (c) capacity, and (d) maintenance.
Politicians draw lines on a map and the TTC or Metrolinx instead of trying a hundred or more permutations of possible routes they only analyse the ones that politicians have come up with. The routes and the technology isn't determined by analysis of existing zoning and existing demand coupled with natural growth, instead it is determined by someone wanting something specific to go somewhere specific possibly with the promise of future re-zoning and intensification which is not guaranteed to occur.... and even with the imaginary zoning it still doesn't make sense through cost-benefit analysis.
This is no way to be running the TTC and Metrolinx.
Dan416
Senior Member
Attracting riders to the current subway system is not a problem. The success of the subway system in Toronto should be replicated if anything. The crowding at Bloor-Yonge is a big motivation for the DRL. If the DRL isn't worth doing, then I don't think there's any point in building any transit in the city of Toronto at all.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
The DRL is very much worth doing but there are numerous things that need to be happen politically before it starts to get realistic. As sadistic as it might sound, I think building the easier-to-fund suburban lines that will inevitably completely overwhelm capacity on the Yonge line is a decent strategy.
nfitz
Superstar
I would think the quickest way to get a DRL is to simply let the province and York fund the Yonge extension, and let everyone get a year or so down that path, and then turn around and say .... oops ... we really can't increase capacity from Bloor to Queen enough to make it work - and present phase 1 of the DRL as the only solution.
lafard
Active Member
I kind of get the feeling that that's what they're trying to do... the RH/downtown capacity issue is a political carrot and inevitably reconfiguring bloor-yonge will be a long, messy project. Look at the PITA factor for putting in a couple track switches on the Yonge line!
Dan416
Senior Member
I hardly see the point in spending billions of dollars to further overwhelm Yonge to somehow justify the DRL. The DRL is needed now! Not 20-30 years down the road!
If that is indeed the case, if the City really wants the DRL, they should push North Yonge to the top of the priority list (well, behind Eglinton and the connection to STC, basically the top of the next round of funding). This would have the secondary effect of pushing the DRL up the list to right behind it. The further down the list the North Yonge extension is, the further down the list the DRL will be. I'm sure York Region wouldn't be opposed to applying some political pressure to move North Yonge up the priority list either. It worked for the TYSSE (Toronto kinda wanted it, Vaughan really wanted it, so in the end, it was moved to the top of the list).
The TTC will study the expansion of Bloor-Yonge, if not for the only reason to justify the DRL. It will be easier to justify spending $3 billion if you can prove that spending $1 billion won't fix the problem. People are going to naturally ask for the cheapest solution to the problem (ex: TC), and if you can say "we've studied it, and the cheaper option won't work", then it gives credence to the more expensive option, which is the option the TTC really wanted all along.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
And how would people transfer onto the Yonge line if Bloor Yonge is being refitted anyway, have the Yonge trains divert to Lower Bay perhaps....
Yeah, too much pain for not enough gain...
Asterix
Active Member
How exactly would Yonge trains get to Lower Bay?
I was thinking the same thing... The only way that they could do it would be to reincorporate the interlining that was used in the 60s, only with a 4th route added (Downsview-Finch). It would borderline cripple the system, but it would be the only way to get people downtown without having them get off and walk a couple blocks. It would basically mean that service on the Spadina line would need to be cut in half, because you would have westbound Bloor trains going through the wye (in order to shuttle people who would have normally transferred at B-Y downtown). Not ideal, but it could technically work.
But yes, no trains would be going from the Yonge line to Lower Bay without going through the University line first.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Closing Bloor/Yonge is not a possibility then which means precluding the possibility of refitting it.
New_EastYork
New Member
Does anyone have any updates/information on the revised options Metrolinx will present to the city concerning Transit City (Eglinton, Sheppard, SRT)? When do you think these options will be presented to the public?