kettal
Banned
I've always been dumbfounded why this was declared the #1 priority. It seems that TTC is using it as a kind of testing ground for some reason. Maybe it's a good idea to run your experiments in a wasteland nobody really cares for? 
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- Thread starter unimaginative2
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
I'd think simply because it was the simplest and shortest of the 3. Only Scarborough-Malvern is simpler, and it's less of a priority.
kEiThZ
Superstar
A Progress LRT from STC to Malvern Town Centre using the hydro corridor, would have been shorter and a good test run. They could have combined that with a subway extension or LRT till Kennedy.
andomano
Active Member
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
No, they haven't. Theoretically, anything could happen in the future, but the amenities facilities and townhouses will convert to another religion before they convert to retail. I think at least one building currently in Sheppard West's pipeline is proposing live/work units, though.
If we're talking about the most urgent transit needs or the best place to build an LRT line right now to solve existing and identifiable transit problems, replacing the Progress bus is pretty far down the list of priorities.
kEiThZ
Superstar
The point of any LRT on Progress, like the SRT extension would be to replace a lot of bus routes from Malvern to STC. Not just the Progress bus. Milner, Nugget, Progress, Neilson and Sheppard would all see large chunks of their ridership shifted onto the LRT. That's not to say that it should be priority. But let's not misrepresent what an RT extension to Malvern is supposed to be for.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
I remember when miketoronto would be crucified every time he suggested improving transit in his area, but at least miketoronto lived near the intersection of 4 full service bus routes.
An LRT along Progress would only replace the Progress bus. Bus service would still be needed along the entirety of all the other routes in Malvern. A few riders might switch, but even if the ridership doubled it'd still be pretty minimal. You'd be adding a transfer for some. How is an LRT line any better than a few E branches? We're talking about priorities.
kettal
Banned
Why are townhouses a problem? Many vibrant downtown streets have townhouses fronting the street.
I'll see if I can find the article, but I read one recently discussing how mid-rise developers have ground floor units designed explicitly for future conversion to retail. It wasn't about this area specifically, but from what I've seen from the outside, a lot (not all) of these buildings look like they have taken such a future into account.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
I said blank walls and the stuttering streetwall and general dreariness was the problem, not townhouses. Townhouses are townhouses...they're not going to be converted. Any ground floor can be renovated, but it'd mean losing a lobby or a party room or a driveway. The space isn't just sitting unoccupied. There may not end up being much retail along Sheppard and what gets built could be a bit scattered. Retail should be mandatory in some spots but the entire street doesn't necessarily need it. Better that Sheppard is fronted with solid rows of townhouses than driveways or ventilation grates or unbroken panes of precast or stucco with a few token nail salons squeezed in behind pillars.
I don't which developer/architect has been building along Sheppard West...maybe we just need to keep them away from newer Avenues.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Sheppard East LRV Maintenance and Storage Facility Open House
Date: February 10, 2010
Time: 6:30 pm to 9:00 pm
Location: Chinese Cultural Centre - 5183 Sheppard Avenue East (east of Markham Road)
Date: February 10, 2010
Time: 6:30 pm to 9:00 pm
Location: Chinese Cultural Centre - 5183 Sheppard Avenue East (east of Markham Road)
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/local/article/603036--sheppard-lrt-gets-community-liaison-officer
Sheppard LRT gets community liaison officer
--By Mike Adler
Devin Horne to address concerns of businesses, residents
Over the next three years, plenty of people will have a complaint or a question about the Sheppard East Light-Rail Project.
Devin Horne is the man paid to listen.
And if people can't find Horne, he may find them.
A new TTC employee with a position created for the project, community liaison officer, Horne is going door to door on Sheppard to introduce himself.
His job is dealing with merchants and residents along the 14.8-kilometre route.
He'll soon have an office on Sheppard, "close to the action as possible," with walk-ins encouraged.
Before the work starts east of Kennedy Road on an underpass below the Agincourt GO line in May, or on sections of the line from west of Birchmount Road to just east of Kennedy and from east of McCowan Road to west of Progress Avenue, each will have its own liaison group where questions can regularly be put to Horne, contractors, project managers and city officials.
"It's amazing how communication can alleviate many of these concerns," Horne said this week, unperturbed to be the public face of the first Transit City LRT project underway after TTC work on the St. Clair Avenue streetcar line ballooned in cost and took considerably longer than expected.
The fact Horne's position exists shows the TTC "took our thoughts to heart," after two years meeting with members of the Sheppard East Village Business Improvement Area as well as recognizing communication on the St. Clair project "fell down miserably," said BIA chairperson Mark Bozian.
"It's a positive step. I think they picked the right individual," he said, adding Horne can relieve frustrations of business owners and residents by providing answers "in real time" from people with power to make decisions.
"That just never existed before on a TTC project."
At the Agincourt Public Library this week, Horne said Sheppard East is not St. Clair, that it is a much-wider street with more room to work and no street parking to lose.
The city has more efficient, less-disruptive construction methods too, he said. Work for Bell Canada, Toronto Hydro and gas mains won't be done separately from the tracks. One side of street will be completed before the other and one section completed before the next starts.
But Horne is aware some people will probably never agree an LRT line running from Meadowvale Road to an underground connection at Don Mills Subway Station is worth the inconvenience or $950-million cost.
At a January town hall held by Scarborough-Rouge River Councillor Chin Lee were residents and business owners who still insist the Sheppard East LRT can somehow be stopped. Horne asked for a show of hands on the project and later remembered the room was almost equally divided.
"The problem is they lie to us, left, right and centre," Karl Haab, who was there, said this week. "Everybody thinks they're getting a light rapid transit (system), but these are only streetcars."
Horne, who grew up in Birch Cliff, studied urban planning and then worked as both a BIA co-ordinator and a town centre manager for the London Borough of Hackney, is equally certain areas such as Scarborough need a transit system that fits travel patterns the city now has.
By building light-rail lines instead of much-costlier subways, he said, "we get to spread this system much further across Toronto."
Adding bicycle lanes on the route gives people another commuting choice, Horne suggested. "What we're trying to do is balance out the uses on a road."
Haab doesn't see the need for bicycle lanes and said he suspects putting Horne, a cyclist and transit user, in charge of publicity for the project is "like putting a fox in charge of the henhouse."
Horne is a good talker and "seems like a nice fellow," Haab added. "It's just that we think the whole concept stinks."
The city's project page is:
www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/sheppard_east_lrt
while email with questions for the project can go to:
sheppardtransit@toronto.ca or to devin.horne@ttc.ca
Sheppard LRT gets community liaison officer
--By Mike Adler
Devin Horne to address concerns of businesses, residents
Over the next three years, plenty of people will have a complaint or a question about the Sheppard East Light-Rail Project.
Devin Horne is the man paid to listen.
And if people can't find Horne, he may find them.
A new TTC employee with a position created for the project, community liaison officer, Horne is going door to door on Sheppard to introduce himself.
His job is dealing with merchants and residents along the 14.8-kilometre route.
He'll soon have an office on Sheppard, "close to the action as possible," with walk-ins encouraged.
Before the work starts east of Kennedy Road on an underpass below the Agincourt GO line in May, or on sections of the line from west of Birchmount Road to just east of Kennedy and from east of McCowan Road to west of Progress Avenue, each will have its own liaison group where questions can regularly be put to Horne, contractors, project managers and city officials.
"It's amazing how communication can alleviate many of these concerns," Horne said this week, unperturbed to be the public face of the first Transit City LRT project underway after TTC work on the St. Clair Avenue streetcar line ballooned in cost and took considerably longer than expected.
The fact Horne's position exists shows the TTC "took our thoughts to heart," after two years meeting with members of the Sheppard East Village Business Improvement Area as well as recognizing communication on the St. Clair project "fell down miserably," said BIA chairperson Mark Bozian.
"It's a positive step. I think they picked the right individual," he said, adding Horne can relieve frustrations of business owners and residents by providing answers "in real time" from people with power to make decisions.
"That just never existed before on a TTC project."
At the Agincourt Public Library this week, Horne said Sheppard East is not St. Clair, that it is a much-wider street with more room to work and no street parking to lose.
The city has more efficient, less-disruptive construction methods too, he said. Work for Bell Canada, Toronto Hydro and gas mains won't be done separately from the tracks. One side of street will be completed before the other and one section completed before the next starts.
But Horne is aware some people will probably never agree an LRT line running from Meadowvale Road to an underground connection at Don Mills Subway Station is worth the inconvenience or $950-million cost.
At a January town hall held by Scarborough-Rouge River Councillor Chin Lee were residents and business owners who still insist the Sheppard East LRT can somehow be stopped. Horne asked for a show of hands on the project and later remembered the room was almost equally divided.
"The problem is they lie to us, left, right and centre," Karl Haab, who was there, said this week. "Everybody thinks they're getting a light rapid transit (system), but these are only streetcars."
Horne, who grew up in Birch Cliff, studied urban planning and then worked as both a BIA co-ordinator and a town centre manager for the London Borough of Hackney, is equally certain areas such as Scarborough need a transit system that fits travel patterns the city now has.
By building light-rail lines instead of much-costlier subways, he said, "we get to spread this system much further across Toronto."
Adding bicycle lanes on the route gives people another commuting choice, Horne suggested. "What we're trying to do is balance out the uses on a road."
Haab doesn't see the need for bicycle lanes and said he suspects putting Horne, a cyclist and transit user, in charge of publicity for the project is "like putting a fox in charge of the henhouse."
Horne is a good talker and "seems like a nice fellow," Haab added. "It's just that we think the whole concept stinks."
The city's project page is:
www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/sheppard_east_lrt
while email with questions for the project can go to:
sheppardtransit@toronto.ca or to devin.horne@ttc.ca
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Whoever said there was lots of resident support for this LRT, pay attention. The residents are finally wising up to the fact that this is just a prettier streetcar and realizing this is not the 'rapid transit' they were promised.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
There'd be opponents to this plan even if it were a subway extension - it's really not indicative of anything beyond NIMBYs existing.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I pointed out a while back that most people in Scarborough thought this was something like the SRT or a subway. People are finally understanding what LRT really is. It's not NIMBYism. It's flat out disappointment that they didn't get what they thought they were promised. It's a sense of bait and switch. You're also slowly starting to see councillors speak out now that they are hearing it from their constituents.
And like we've already discussed, it's not NIMBYism to want better service in your community. The merchants in Agincourt would gladly trade disruption for a subway over an LRT that brings uncertain rewards (most will lose the stops in front of their stores that brought walk in business....and then there's the removal of left turns too).
...and don't worry SOS had nothing to do with this at all.
And like we've already discussed, it's not NIMBYism to want better service in your community. The merchants in Agincourt would gladly trade disruption for a subway over an LRT that brings uncertain rewards (most will lose the stops in front of their stores that brought walk in business....and then there's the removal of left turns too).
...and don't worry SOS had nothing to do with this at all.