[innsertnamehere]

^ Why not include stops at Jameson and Broadview? Jameson has a cluster of apartment buildings and would probably be among the highest used stops.

Otherwise great map.

Destinations not residences drive ridership, and There are essentially no destinations at Jameson. I am sort of torn on it, it could go in or it could not go in. It would be a pretty low ridership station. Broadview is way too close to my River street station, they would only be around 300 meters apart. The only way it could really go in is if River was removed, which I feel is a more important stop overall.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I really do like this innsert. The Queen ROW alone would be a huge improvement to downtown RT. I'm just worried about the politics of the thing (war on cars etc...)

Thats why it would be a "trade off", the cars get a streetcar free King street, the streetcars get a car free Queen street. It would also remove the need for bike lanes on Richmond and Adelaide, meaning less lanes removed from those streets.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Thats why it would be a "trade off", the cars get a streetcar free King street, the streetcars get a car free Queen street. It would also remove the need for bike lanes on Richmond and Adelaide, meaning less lanes removed from those streets.

Yeah I get that it's a more than fair trade off for drivers. But we've both witnessed the level of political discourse in this city. I don't see a Rob Ford type character going along with this without nonsensical political sloganeering about downtown lefties war on cars. But maybe these three years have made me a little cynical.

Anyways I know that Mr. Byford floated the idea of 2015 trial of a King Street ROW a few months ago. I'm not entirely convinced that he'll be successful with that. Your proposal of Queen ROW + no streetcar King probably would have a greater chance of success.

 

[gweed123]

it screws up transfers from GO to the Yonge line, thats what I meant. your configuration has a huge walkway down to it that adds inconvenience compared to the current setup where you simply walk to front street.

Not necessarily. The walk from the middle of the concourse under Bay St to the Yonge platform would be about the same distance as the walk from the middle of the concourse to the DRL (current) platform. In fact, it would actually improve flow, because you wouldn't have everybody going in one direction.

No way a downtown station costs $1 billion, they are allowed to rip up the street. you can't rip up the rail corridor. Maybe $300 million for each stop underneath King & St. Andrew. you can build it the same way they are building Eglinton and Eglinton West on the Crosstown.

They're digging a much larger station than a subway station underneath the Union Station rail corridor as we speak. That seems to have only minimal impact on corridor operations.

The only problem with my preffered alignment (essentially a basic King street subway) is that it would require a 6 or 7 year shutdown of the King streetcar, and an inability to operate a replacement service as King will essentially be impassible especially through the core where the interchange stations are. a Richmond-Adelaide bus service along with extremely beefed up 501 service could probably work though, and once the subway is done the 504 won't even be needed.

This is personally why, if the DRL is indeed chosen to be a separate line, I prefer the Wellington alignment. All the advantages of a King alignment, plus the streetcar stays in service, plus a better connection to Union.

I think this is pretty awesome!

Gracias! Yes, it's certainly an option that I think should at least be examined. If it's not technically feasible, so be it. But never hurts to examine alternatives at this point in the design.

 

[gweed123]

I struggle with that a bit as well, but in the end I think it should be what is best for final operations after completion, and that is a King Alignment IMO.

Heres what I would like to see, with the red areas being stations:

Nice map. Personally though, I would have the line veer up to Queen somewhere west of Bathurst, possibly using Niagara or something like that. I just feel like Dufferin & Queen has enormous transit hub potential, and the same doesn't quite exist on King. Subway route + plethora of GO routes + huge streetcar route + one of the busiest surface routes in the city. Seems like a good fit.

 

[JWBF]

I struggle with that a bit as well, but in the end I think it should be what is best for final operations after completion, and that is a King Alignment IMO.

Heres what I would like to see, with the red areas being stations:

also, with King no longer having streetcars, you could do a "trade off", where you make Queen a "local traffic only" street basically only to be used for deliveries and local access, and of course a streetcar ROW.

Love it, Queen has needed a ROW for decades (damn Bloor beat it out for a subway!).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If I recall correctly, King Street moves 50,000/day on streetcar and 17,000/day on car. If either of these streets had a streetcar ROW they'd be so much more efficient at moving people. Likely approaching 75,000/day on streetcar.

 

[kEiThZ]

I'd like to see become basically a woonerf, especially through the core. Restrict it to streetcars, bicycles and pedestrians. Maybe the odd delivery vehicle.

 

[M II A II R II K]

exactly. Why spend $1 billion+ on this reconfiguration that just creates a worse transfer from Union? A DRL that passes under both lines costs $4 billion, its not worth $1 billion for the minimal to no benefits splitting the lines would bring.

They could be split and intersect with the new satellite Union where they both could be directly above the new GO train interchange where that would make a transfer as easy as St. George. And the current Union on the subway would just be on the University Line.

 

[JasonParis]

I really do like this innsert. The Queen ROW alone would be a huge improvement to downtown RT. I'm just worried about the politics of the thing (war on cars etc...)

We'll get there one day. I also think tunneling the central portion of Queen could make some sense too.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Or pedestrianizing the whole of Queen St.

 

[junctionist]

The war on car garbage will die if people see that these upgrades are functional and practical. That simply never fails in Toronto. The city needs to control the information so what the reporters on every newscast say the following numbers "50,000 in streetcars, 15,000 in cars--75,000 on streetcars with the right of way". The planners need a charismatic spokesperson. End of story? No, when the ROW is built and a success, you make sure they do more reports showing the beautiful new streetscape with calm, light traffic on the roadway as the quiet streetcars whirl by. I'm tired of the war on car bullshit rhetoric for what are practical, necessary interventions. I can't see this crap continuing; it's unacceptable.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Another DRL attempt. This time, I ran it across Albion down weston to weston and eglinton. I did something a little different in Scarborough. I went east from Don Mills Eglinton, to Victoria Park Lawrence, Warden Ellsemere, Progress, STC and Malvern Town Centre. In the central part, I ran it along King street. I chose Keele and Donlands as the interchanges.


Thoughts?

 

[doady]

I think a major feature of DRL is provide relief to the Yonge Line from the east, the same way University-Spadina does from the west. If it built as an east-west line, I think that limits it's potential to provide relief. Bloor-Danforth should get relief from the north from Eglinton so DRL doesn't need to provide that relief. That DRL would be the fourth east-west line through Scarborough if you count Sheppard. It is unnecessary. The priority for Toronto should be a third north-south subway line, the Pape-Don Mills line.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think a major feature of DRL is provide relief to the Yonge Line from the east, the same way University-Spadina does from the west. If it built as an east-west line, I think that limits it's potential to provide relief. Bloor-Danforth should get relief from the north from Eglinton so DRL doesn't need to provide that relief. That DRL would be the fourth east-west line through Scarborough if you count Sheppard. It is unnecessary. The priority for Toronto should be a third north-south subway line, the Pape-Don Mills line.

Honestly, I wanted to eliminate the transfers for people from Etobicoke and Scarborough to get downtown.