[denfromoakvillemilton]

There's ways of modelling it for sure. I just think that the more major changes you institute into a system, the harder it is to accurately model what the travel patterns will be. I say build it up to Eglinton, wait a few years and see how travel patterns shift, and then go from there.

Also, I think Jane would be a perfect candidate for B-Line style BRT. Put that in along Jane for the fraction of the cost of building a subway, and have it feed into the Mt. Dennis hub and the DRL terminus. If the B-Line gets overloaded, then you have your answer as to whether a subway extension would be viable. If the B-Line can handle the demand, then you just saved yourself a boatload of cash. (Side note: I think that approach would have saved us a boatload of money on Sheppard, because the B-Line would have handled the demand).

A DRL extension coupled with a B-Line instead of building all the way up Jane in 1 shot would also allow for money in the interim to be spent on other projects.



Potentially, yes. This is why my DRL West alignment up to Eglinton goes up Dufferin and then cuts diagonally, to purposely avoid overlapping with the Georgetown corridor. North of Eglinton, like I said above, I think instituting a B-Line would show how much demand there really would be for a subway.

I think the Lrt for Jane would be a great idea. But I'm worried about ridership overflow. But like you said, if fears are unfounded, then there's that.

 

[andrewpmk]

I think the Lrt for Jane would be a great idea. But I'm worried about ridership overflow. But like you said, if fears are unfounded, then there's that.

LRT on Jane wouldn't work because a large section of the road is too narrow, unless you run the LRT in mixed traffic.

Subway costs too much for the amount of ridership generated. This is an area with low development potential because it is a lower income area. GO Train on the Georgetown line seems the only sensible way of improving transit in this area.

 

[gweed123]

I think the Lrt for Jane would be a great idea. But I'm worried about ridership overflow. But like you said, if fears are unfounded, then there's that.

It would be a Vancouver-style B-Line BRT, like what currently exists on Broadway. Wide stop spacing (~1km, comparable to what the subway stop spacing would be), all door boarding, articulated buses. It would have queue jump lanes at intersections, but wouldn't have a full dedicated corridor like an LRT would. It would cost a fraction of what an LRT would and would be a rounding error compared to a subway budget. Despite that, it would be a good way of judging demand on that corridor. The Broadway-UBC B-Line is absolutely packed right now, which has lead Vancouver to state that it's near or at the top of the list in terms of expansion of the SkyTrain network.

 

[salsa]

LRT on Jane wouldn't work because a large section of the road is too narrow, unless you run the LRT in mixed traffic.

Eglinton is also too narrow in many sections. That's why the crosstown LRT will be partially tunnelled, so I don't see why that wouldn't work on Jane street.

 

[Hopkins123]

Nice map. Personally though, I would have the line veer up to Queen somewhere west of Bathurst, possibly using Niagara or something like that. I just feel like Dufferin & Queen has enormous transit hub potential, and the same doesn't quite exist on King. Subway route + plethora of GO routes + huge streetcar route + one of the busiest surface routes in the city. Seems like a good fit.

I think you're thinking something more along the lines of this:



As you see I have the DRL ends terminate at Lawrence as opposed to Eglinton to capture all the density in Weston and Don Mills. I also utilize Wellington/Front through east downtown to capture the density in the CBD, St Lawrence and Distillery District but have it transition back up to Queen; IMO the main commercial east-west corridor of the downtown.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Eglinton is also too narrow in many sections. That's why the crosstown LRT will be partially tunnelled, so I don't see why that wouldn't work on Jane street.

Probably a good time to post this revision I made to the map:

Large PNG, PDF

Why not just have the Jane LRT connect to the western Eglinton terminus of the Relief Line? It would probably prove to be far more useful and cheaper than bringing Jane to Bloor.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Probably a good time to post this revision I made to the map:

Large PNG, PDF

Why not just have the Jane LRT connect to the western Eglinton terminus of the Relief Line? It would probably prove to be far more useful and cheaper than bringing Jane to Bloor.

How will you manage the time intervals for the Scarborough section and the DRL?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It would be a Vancouver-style B-Line BRT, like what currently exists on Broadway. Wide stop spacing (~1km, comparable to what the subway stop spacing would be), all door boarding, articulated buses. It would have queue jump lanes at intersections, but wouldn't have a full dedicated corridor like an LRT would. It would cost a fraction of what an LRT would and would be a rounding error compared to a subway budget. Despite that, it would be a good way of judging demand on that corridor. The Broadway-UBC B-Line is absolutely packed right now, which has lead Vancouver to state that it's near or at the top of the list in terms of expansion of the SkyTrain network.

Understood. I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

LRT on Jane wouldn't work because a large section of the road is too narrow, unless you run the LRT in mixed traffic.

Subway costs too much for the amount of ridership generated. This is an area with low development potential because it is a lower income area. GO Train on the Georgetown line seems the only sensible way of improving transit in this area.

It would be a Vancouver-style B-Line BRT, like what currently exists on Broadway. Wide stop spacing (~1km, comparable to what the subway stop spacing would be), all door boarding, articulated buses. It would have queue jump lanes at intersections, but wouldn't have a full dedicated corridor like an LRT would. It would cost a fraction of what an LRT would and would be a rounding error compared to a subway budget. Despite that, it would be a good way of judging demand on that corridor. The Broadway-UBC B-Line is absolutely packed right now, which has lead Vancouver to state that it's near or at the top of the list in terms of expansion of the SkyTrain network.

Eglinton is also too narrow in many sections. That's why the crosstown LRT will be partially tunnelled, so I don't see why that wouldn't work on Jane street.

I guess the just having the Keele Finch subway stop could work. A Jane subway would also be empty from what I hear as well.

 

[gweed123]

I think you're thinking something more along the lines of this:

As you see I have the DRL ends terminate at Lawrence as opposed to Eglinton to capture all the density in Weston and Don Mills. I also utilize Wellington/Front through east downtown to capture the density in the CBD, St Lawrence and Distillery District but have it transition back up to Queen; IMO the main commercial east-west corridor of the downtown.

Yup, pretty much! Although I'm partial to a Dufferin alignment instead of Roncesvalles/Parkside, because it opens up the possibility of a hub at Dufferin & Queen. It also replaces the southern portion of one of the busiest bus routes in the city.

I would also have the Spadina station at Spadina & King, and have it run up to Queen along Niagara (or thereabouts). Niagara provides an easier cut than having to go underneath buildings, etc.

Good map though!

How will you manage the time intervals for the Scarborough section and the DRL?

What I figured could work is stopping half the Bloor-Danforth trains at Victoria Park (where the DRL and B-D meet), and then have the other half of the trains end at Kennedy. This spreads out the short-turn problems that would be associated with ending all Bloor-Danforth trains at the same point. It also gives Bloor-Danforth access to the Eglinton LRT.

 

[Translude15]

Hi guys,

I was thinking the other day about the many times I've corrected people regarding Toronto's population figures. Seems like many people tend to confuse Toronto's CMA population of ~5.5 million as the actual population living within the city's borders.

It got me thinking what Toronto would be like if the entire GTHA had twice the number of people. Obviously our transit infrastructure would be quite a bit more extensive with a regional population of ~13 million.

That said, most of the transit maps within this thread are premised on Toronto's current or near-future population figures. It would be interesting to see what kind of transit network would be necessitated by doubling the current population of the city and the region as well as how the various modes of rapid transit would differ from what currently exists.

I myself cannot create a fantasy map for the life of me, but if anyone is willing to undertake this kind of map, here are some guidelines:

- All GTHA municipalities double in population and Oshawa and Niagara can be included as well
- Population distribution remains the same, meaning areas currently possessing the highest population densities would remain the densest after doubling population figures
- Development barriers such as the Greenbelt and Oak Ridges Moraine would remain in place
- Modal shares can shift according to your own preferences or predictions

 

[salsa]

It got me thinking what Toronto would be like if the entire GTHA had twice the number of people. Obviously our transit infrastructure would be quite a bit more extensive with a regional population of ~13 million.

I can't imagine how the Yonge line would handle that population, even with the relief line. We're gonna need 12-car trains and a NY style express line.

 

[Translude15]

I can't imagine how the Yonge line would handle that population, even with the relief line. We're gonna need 12-car trains and a NY style express line.

Precisely. I would imagine both the YUS and Bloor-Danforth lines would need express tracks. Current stations would probably need to be expanded to handle the extra capacity as well. Multiple relief lines would also be necessary within the downtown area.

 

[DKsan]

I'm bored. I made a completely far-fetched, not possible, not going to happen, fantasy map.

...

I essentially dumped a bunch of PRT lines over the York University block.
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/viewer?mid=zigPkD698tV4.kb8mpKdGIt8g

 

[Fred.S]

York U would be such a great place for an extensive pilot PRT project, such as the one you made, especially with all the new surrounding RT projects in the works.