Observer Walt
Senior Member
Agreed, it's pretty extreme. It's not in keeping with the tone of this forum, no matter what your "mood" may be. We should keep the discussion to the actual matters at hand.
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- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
Agreed, it's pretty extreme. It's not in keeping with the tone of this forum, no matter what your "mood" may be. We should keep the discussion to the actual matters at hand.
BobBob
Senior Member
Funny enough, just on Thursday, the driver of the streetcar going south on Spadina stopped the car midblock to hop over to Papa Ceo's and get a slice of pizza, which took about 10 minutes. He came back, no apology, nothing, just sat in the chair with his pizza and continued the drive.
I had forgotten about it, but Friday's events reminded me of it and helped give me the overall impression I have right now, which is (rightly or wrongly) of a total moral breakdown within this union.
Nobody should feel entitled to do a half-assed job, or not do it at all, and get paid more than the market value of their supposed labour.
I had forgotten about it, but Friday's events reminded me of it and helped give me the overall impression I have right now, which is (rightly or wrongly) of a total moral breakdown within this union.
Nobody should feel entitled to do a half-assed job, or not do it at all, and get paid more than the market value of their supposed labour.
K
krooj
Guest
Biking around the city today was interesting: traffic was moving faster than usual; especially through the core. Everything is much quieter, which you come to appreciate very quickly. There were a *ton* on pedestrians out today, which is really nice to see; moreover, lots of cyclists - some of which need to learn how to hold a line 
While I agree that no completing the routes reflects very poorly on the TTC, I have no sympathy for the drunken bums that come from the 905 to crap-up the core, and subsequently got stuck downtown. I do feel bad for working people that got shafted by the strike, though.
While I agree that no completing the routes reflects very poorly on the TTC, I have no sympathy for the drunken bums that come from the 905 to crap-up the core, and subsequently got stuck downtown. I do feel bad for working people that got shafted by the strike, though.
K
krooj
Guest
So the guy wanted a slice. You don't know the circumstances under which he decided to get that slice, and without knowing the background, you have no right to complain. As for being overpaid - why don't you do the job?
ITT - too many "internet experts"
ShonTron
Moderator
Marilyn Churley and the rest of us now knows what happens if the TTC "just disappeared". (Remember how that dumb campaign was the start-up to this whole fiasco?)
Panzerfaust
Active Member
These two posts just destroyed any credibility you may have.
A) You think 905ers crap up the core? They're people just like me and you, and they bring business in. In fact, I live in Hamilton, a part of the 905. Does that mean I'm crapping up the core when I come downtown? Everyone has a right to be downtown, not just workers.
B) We do know the circumstances: he left a streetcar in the middle of Spadina for ten minutes while he went to go get a slice. This probably held up service along the whole line. He didn't wait for his layover. He just jumped out and went to go get something to eat.
I think "ITT krooj makes a fool of himself" would be more appropriate.
K
krooj
Guest
You think posters on the internet have any credibility? For that matter, what makes you credible to call out anyone?
A) Yes they do crap up the core. Live in the city and you'll see what I'm taking about. The money they bring is marginal when compared to the headaches they cause for local residents.
B) Lighten up. I can't hold it against a transit worker if they want to get a bite to eat. They're human.
P.S.: I <3 you.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Uh, well, I bet a lot of workers would love to just stop working and shut the place down whenever they feel like it. I don't know about where you work (cough, cough...TTC), but most employers don't look too kindly on that. Regardless of the potentially hundreds of people being held up by his need for that slice, recall that he's getting paid to stand there in line at the pizza place, obstructing traffic.
I don't mind if a driver late at night, with an empty bus on a long suburban route stops to run into the Tim's for a cup of coffee. But on a route like Spadina? Come on.
Oh, and where do you live? I can damned sure guarantee I live closer to all those clubs than you, and they don't cause me the slightest bit of trouble.
I don't mind if a driver late at night, with an empty bus on a long suburban route stops to run into the Tim's for a cup of coffee. But on a route like Spadina? Come on.
Oh, and where do you live? I can damned sure guarantee I live closer to all those clubs than you, and they don't cause me the slightest bit of trouble.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
If Bob Kinnear met up with a mob of angry and irrational TTC patrons at 12:01a.m., I'd love to see the ambulance driver stop for 10 minutes to grab a slice on the way to the hospital.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
^Lol!
At this point in the evolution of this city, it is clear that the TTC is an essential service, and it is time that it be managed as such. The fact that this strike is about an issue concerning new bus warranties is simply idiotic. Bob Kinnear is out-of-touch with the poisonous mood of many of his union members, and has managed to insult the population of the city. Kicking passengers off vehicles at the start of the strike stinks. The well-being of some of those people could have been put at risk in the process.
If the union stays out, I am hoping for provincial trusteeship of the union, and jail time for Kinnear. He needs his ass kicked.
At this point in the evolution of this city, it is clear that the TTC is an essential service, and it is time that it be managed as such. The fact that this strike is about an issue concerning new bus warranties is simply idiotic. Bob Kinnear is out-of-touch with the poisonous mood of many of his union members, and has managed to insult the population of the city. Kicking passengers off vehicles at the start of the strike stinks. The well-being of some of those people could have been put at risk in the process.
If the union stays out, I am hoping for provincial trusteeship of the union, and jail time for Kinnear. He needs his ass kicked.
Blovertis
Active Member
Amusing to see that www.worthamillion.ca is no longer active.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
After all, the ambulance driver's only human!
This is a very interesting article. Apparently it's all about a power struggle between Kinnear and even-more-radical members of the executive. Apparently some of them are even angry about operating extra hours during Nuit Blanche and New Year's Eve. They will show absolutely no flexibility of any kind on anything, it seems to suggest. These radical members used the long gap between the signing and the vote on the contract to spread doomsday stories about maintenance workers throughout the system.
Province to end TTC walkout
All parties expected to support back-to-work legislation in rare emergency session today
Apr 27, 2008 04:30 AM
Tess Kalinowski
Robert Benzie
Staff Reporters
The weekend-long shocker of a TTC strike should be over in time for tomorrow morning's commute.
Premier Dalton McGuinty will table back-to-work legislation this afternoon in a rare emergency Sunday session of the Legislature, in which all three parties are expected to vote in favour of forcing 9,000 striking members of the Amalgamated Transit Union back on the job.
Failure to abide by the law would result in hefty fines for the union.
Talks yesterday between Local 113 of the union and management were called off around dinnertime after meetings between a provincial mediator, the union and TTC management failed to reach a new deal.
The union and TTC management sides spent only about 15 minutes in the same room, said TTC chief general manager Gary Webster.
The union "shocked" TTC management with a long list of demands, some of which were very different from what was agreed to last week, said Webster who is expected to notify workers to return to the job as soon as the back-to-work law passes today. It will take only about three or four hours to set the TTC in motion again, he said.
Union president Bob Kinnear refused to speak with reporters who staked out the Richmond Hill hotel where talks were taking place, fuelling speculation that the union is experiencing a leadership crisis.
Last Sunday's tentative contract settlement was rejected by 65 per cent of the union members on Friday, who walked off the job at midnight leaving furious riders stranded throughout the city and about 1.6 million people who normally ride the TTC on a weekend looking for other means of transportation.
An angry Mayor David Miller made it clear yesterday he never expected the return to bargaining would be successful.
"The union executive clearly can't deliver its membership so even if we negotiated a settlement there's no guarantee that they can deliver their membership," he said.
If legislated back to work, the union will likely receive an arbitrated settlement. It's unclear if it will give the workers the same provisions that were negotiated earlier, including a 3 per cent increase in each year of a three-year contract, a 20-cent premium for skilled trades, improvements in dental, insurance and injury benefits and a GTA clause that guarantees TTC drivers are the highest paid in the region.
McGuinty, who has been in constant contact with Miller since the snap walkout, promised to move the legislation quickly.
New Democratic Party Leader Howard Hampton and Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory indicated they would support the back-to-work legislation.
Hampton, who warned earlier in the day that his party wasn't going "to buy a pig in a poke" before closely studying the legislation, said New Democrats would support the bill.
The NDP's stance was key because they had the power to deny the all-party consent necessary to pass the legislation in one day. That would have prolonged the job action.
TTC chair Adam Giambrone said that under the circumstances, the TTC sustained little damage to its property aside from some broken windows and doors, and graffiti.
He stressed that even though the union failed to live up to a commitment to give 48 hours' notice of a strike, the walkout was legal.
Giambrone urged the public to remember the strike was a union matter and pleaded for the public not to punish TTC staff for the inconvenience. "What we've said all along is this was never about drivers. It's not fair for people to take their anger out on individuals."
Insiders say the strike was triggered by divisions inside the union and possibly some missteps by Kinnear and the executive. "It's a power struggle. There are a number of people who would like to take over (from Kinnear)," one source said.
It's possible the deal sunk simply because too much time elapsed between last Sunday's settlement and Friday's ratification vote.
The outcome might have been different had union members voted Tuesday.
But the lag gave those undermining the settlement a chance to spread misinformation about the impact of the contract on the maintenance workers and mechanics, who comprise about 4,000 of the 9,000 members.
Some believe the operators felt compelled to support fellow union members and vote down the deal.
Sources said reports were overstated of maintenance workers and mechanics being upset about the GTA clause guaranteeing drivers the highest wage among regional transit workers. One union insider said the misinformation about the settlement "snowballed."
"This was the old guard versus the new guard," said a source, of the apparent split in the executive. Two signatures – executive vice-president and assistant business agent, maintenance – were still missing from a signed copy of the contract obtained by the Star yesterday.
But another source said Kinnear probably has enough executive support to survive the crisis.
"Bob will not resign," said the source. "He has enough support to be able to block that."
Despite his confrontational, public reputation, Kinnear is a reasonable leader, say TTC insiders. If he is forced out, some of the flexibility that makes the system work for special events such as Nuit Blanche or extended hours at New Year's Eve could be more difficult.
The union's gambit should bolster McGuinty's threat to declare the TTC an essential service prohibited from striking. He has signalled his displeasure with the recurring threats of transit strikes in Toronto.
While the Legislative Assembly has sat on Sundays before – the last time being in 1997 during a filibuster surrounding the amalgamation of Toronto by then Tory premier Mike Harris – today is believed to be the first time the House has been recalled for a Sunday.
Getting the Legislature back involved tricky protocol issues. Government House Leader Michael Bryant's office prepared an order in council to facilitate the session.
After McGuinty and Education Minister Kathleen Wynne, the chair of cabinet, signed the one-page order, an official had to drive it to the Scarborough home of Lieutenant Governor David Onley for his signature.
Ironically, traffic gridlock slightly delayed the reconvening of the Legislature. By law, there must be 24 hours' notice to recall the House and gridlock from Queen's Park to Scarborough meant the earliest it could meet was 1:30 p.m. today.
With files from David Bruser
Chuck
Senior Member
I have a lot of pennies lying around. Next time I board the subway, I'm shoving 275 pennies underneath the window. Let the overpaid, lazy bum count and organize hundreds of pennies for the rest of their shift. Better yet, I still get to use the subway, and the TTC doesn't suffer a financial loss for the Union's irresponsible behaviour.
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krooj
Guest
Uh, the suburban late night route delay can be far worse for the rider, depending on the weather. When I lived in Brampton, it was routine for the 11 driver to stop at the McDonalds @ Torbram & Steeles to get some food/coffee. It never really bothered me, and I guess it still doesn't.
I complain about clubbing people crapping up the core. mainly because of the havoc I encounter while riding my bike through that area on Friday or Saturday nights. I _really_ don't enjoy having crap thrown at me or people lunging into my path. It would be especially bad if I hit one of them at 30km/h.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
In the hours while the board was down for updates:
Legislation passed.
Union agrees to go back to work.
Members called and told to report.
Partial service likely to resume within hours.
Arbitrator has been chosen.
Kinnear still being Kinnear.
All three party leaders urge people to remain calm, don't act-a-fool.
Legislation passed.
Union agrees to go back to work.
Members called and told to report.
Partial service likely to resume within hours.
Arbitrator has been chosen.
Kinnear still being Kinnear.
All three party leaders urge people to remain calm, don't act-a-fool.