[Electrify]

I was out yesterday conducting along Sheppard Ave conducting surveys with transit riders, and the route manager for the line needs to be shot! I was at a stop for about 6 hours, and all through the day I witnessed 2-3 buses come in a row, followed by a 15-20 minute wait (5-10 minutes during rush hour) until the next pack arrived. Considering that frequency along this part of the route is supposed to be every 7 minutes midday, 5 minutes during rush hour, this is ridiculous. During midday, it is as if every other bus didn't show up!

The people I talked to claimed that this was not an out of the ordinary occurrence, and such shoddy service was regular. At this point, the TTC can't get those arctics and LRTs soon enough. At least then they can schedule each vehicle to arrive every 10-20 minutes, rather than running a whole bunch of them in packs.

 

[doady]

I was out yesterday conducting along Sheppard Ave conducting surveys with transit riders, and the route manager for the line needs to be shot! I was at a stop for about 6 hours, and all through the day I witnessed 2-3 buses come in a row, followed by a 15-20 minute wait (5-10 minutes during rush hour) until the next pack arrived. Considering that frequency along this part of the route is supposed to be every 7 minutes midday, 5 minutes during rush hour, this is ridiculous. During midday, it is as if every other bus didn't show up!

The people I talked to claimed that this was not an out of the ordinary occurrence, and such shoddy service was regular. At this point, the TTC can't get those arctics and LRTs soon enough. At least then they can schedule each vehicle to arrive every 10-20 minutes, rather than running a whole bunch of them in packs.

Are you seriously suggesting that buses don't have schedules already?

Bunching actually happens a lot in Mississauga as well. All-door boarding scheme and any sort of priority measures would help solve the problem.

Bunching happens on every busy route, artics or no. Artics can fall behind schedules too. There is nothing about artics that makes it easier for them to adhere to the schedule. Any rider of MT's route 1 Dundas can attest to that.

 

[taal]

Yes this can happen with anything ... its all the on the hands of the TTC.


Viva blue / pink does a pretty darn good job (and they're ~ 10min freuqency ... similar TTC routes get tons of bunching).

 

[doady]

Yes this can happen with anything ... its all the on the hands of the TTC.


Viva blue / pink does a pretty darn good job (and they're ~ 10min freuqency ... similar TTC routes get tons of bunching).

Last I checked, there aren't many TTC bus routes that have an all-door boarding scheme and traffic signal priority.

 

[drum118]

Last I checked, there aren't many TTC bus routes that have an all-door boarding scheme and traffic signal priority.

Which routes have stops for buses to do all door loading as I don't know of one other than bus terminals??

Buses running bunches and with huge gaps should be no surprise to anyone. Traffic and riders are the main cause, with a few drivers added to the mix. Then you have staff that don't do real ridership count or runtime to see if more service is needed to meet the demand.

Viva has bunching as well to the point the buses are all late.

Mississauga gets close doors and bunching with artic's and no different with 40's.

 

[datamouse]

I noticed the bus arrival times display is up and running at Don Mills station. Now if only they fixed the leaking roof.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I was out yesterday conducting along Sheppard Ave conducting surveys with transit riders, and the route manager for the line needs to be shot! I was at a stop for about 6 hours, and all through the day I witnessed 2-3 buses come in a row, followed by a 15-20 minute wait (5-10 minutes during rush hour) until the next pack arrived. Considering that frequency along this part of the route is supposed to be every 7 minutes midday, 5 minutes during rush hour, this is ridiculous. During midday, it is as if every other bus didn't show up!

The people I talked to claimed that this was not an out of the ordinary occurrence, and such shoddy service was regular. At this point, the TTC can't get those arctics and LRTs soon enough. At least then they can schedule each vehicle to arrive every 10-20 minutes, rather than running a whole bunch of them in packs.

If the articulated buses continue to use the front door only for fare collection or to show their transfers, nothing will change. In fact, I think, people will continue to use the front door only to exit, even if the bus stop is clear of snow windrows, delaying everyone to wants to get on the bus. The current buses could get better service, if passengers exit through the the center doors, as the first step.

 

[Electrify]

I suppose it would be too much to ask to simply hold a bus at a stop for a few minutes to create a gap between it and the one in front of it...

Kind of like what happens on our subway system.

 

[doady]

I suppose it would be too much to ask to simply hold a bus at a stop for a few minutes to create a gap between it and the one in front of it...

So if one bus goes behind schedule, then every single bus behind it and all its passengers should be behind schedule as well? Seriously?

Kind of like what happens on our subway system.

Yeah, let's operate the bus exactly like the subway, because the buses don't have schedules and they can't pass each other by and they operate in their own grade-separated ROW, just like the subways.

If the articulated buses continue to use the front door only for fare collection or to show their transfers, nothing will change. In fact, I think, people will continue to use the front door only to exit, even if the bus stop is clear of snow windrows, delaying everyone to wants to get on the bus. The current buses could get better service, if passengers exit through the the center doors, as the first step.

It's actually easier for artics to go behind schedule if they are front door boarding only, because more people are waiting at each stop. It's just less noticable since the artics are spaced further apart.

 

[nfitz]

So if one bus goes behind schedule, then every single bus behind it and all its passengers should be behind schedule as well? Seriously?

Seriously. That's how the subway works. The passengers won't notice much. If necessary you tighten the schedule by 1 minute or so on each bus to get it back again.

Part of the problem though is the TTC schedules aren't realistic in the first place - and what might work at 3:45 doesn't work at 4:15.

 

[doady]

Seriously. That's how the subway works. The passengers won't notice much. If necessary you tighten the schedule by 1 minute or so on each bus to get it back again.

The subways can do that because the trains operate in a grade separated ROW with an all-door boarding scheme. The running time of a subway train never varies to the same extent that a bus operating on street in mixed traffic with front door boarding only does.

 

[nfitz]

The subways can do that because the trains operate in a grade separated ROW with an all-door boarding scheme. The running time of a subway train never varies to the same extent that a bus operating on street in mixed traffic with front door boarding only does.

But what's the point of two vehicles running together on a scheduled 5-minute frequency, when you can sit and look at your phone, and see there's a 10-minute gap behind?

TTC can do a lot better on this than they have been.

 

[doady]

But what's the point of two vehicles running together on a scheduled 5-minute frequency, when you can sit and look at your phone, and see there's a 10-minute gap behind?

Because faster buses are better. You might reduce the wait time by five minutes, but if you force the bus to be 10 minutes slower, that's a net loss of 5 minutes, and that's for every subsequent trip.

And that just for buses behind. I don't see how that 10 minute gap in front the first bus is eliminated by forcing all buses behind it go slower.

Furthermore, if you force buses to go slower, then you need more buses to maintain the same frequency. If the bus is 60 minutes long, then you need 24 buses for 5 minute frequency. But if you force all of them to be 10 minute slower, then you actually need to add 4 more buses to maintain the 5 minute frequency.

The delays are cumulative too. If the bus falls 10 minutes behind, and the bus behind deliberately falls ten minutes. But what if second bus falls 10 minutes behind too? Then the buses behind that would be 20 minutes behind.

For on-street, mixed traffic operation, it doesn't make sense to throw every bus behind schedule because the bus in front falls behind schedule. If all buses behind operate the same, you will still have 5 minute intervals between them. The 10 minute interval is in front the first bus, not behind.

 

[nfitz]

Because faster buses are better. You might reduce the wait time by five minutes, but if you force the bus to be 10 minutes slower, that's a net loss of 5 minutes, and that's for every subsequent trip.

It's only 5 minutes slower for the bus that's bunched with the other bus.

 

[M II A II R II K]

How about introducing Montreal's idea of a loyalty program that gives back to the customers with the use of smartphones. Assuming one were to pretend the TTC doesn't have antiquated methods of payment and takes too long to implement a single card.