[kEiThZ]

Did you miss all the studies in the last couple of decades about how shift work effects people, and that people don't every properly adapt?

Yet, you don't see pilots, train operators, etc. stopping mid-route because they are tired. Lots of people work shifts. If somebody can't get through a single run without a coffee break, then they are not cut out to be a TTC operator, simple as that.

What other employer expects an employee to work all night without a coffee or having a chance to pee?

Can you show me where in their collective agreement, it says they can't take breaks? Don't obfuscate the issue. It's not about him just taking a break. It's about him taking a break when the bus is already 15 mins behind, leaving the door open so the passengers can freeze, breaking the city's idling by-law, abandoning public property with passengers onboard, and taking an unscheduled break not normally allowed by his employer.

The reason they get away with this crap is because there are always suckers who fall for the line, "But it's just 7 mins! Everybody needs a break." Fine. Take it on your own time. Not mine or the taxpayer's dime.

Are they though? I pointed out above that anytime I've taken the night bus, that they have no problems gaining on the schedule when they want to ... they have to try hard and not get too far ahead. Yes, 5-10 minutes seems a bit excessive ... but in general, I don't see the issue of a driver on a night bus stopping at a coffee place, going in to pee, grab a coffee (and heck perhaps even a doughnut) to go. Operative word here is night bus.

When you are 15 mins behind, and the passengers asks you to skip the break (that you are not supposed to have anyway), pressing forward, then quarrelling with the passenger is absolutely unacceptable. He deserves what he's getting. It's not his van to do with as he pleases. It's a public vehicle with passengers on-board. And he's responsible for their safety and security and efficient transport. At minimum, if he's ahead of schedule, he should announce that he's ahead of schedule and needs to stop for a break and reassure the passengers that they will reach on time.

As far as I know, the breaks are at the terminal. You tell me where you get a coffee anywhere either terminal for the Bathurst night bus!

Again, how is that an issue for passengers? Can they not install coffee pots at work? I don't have a Tim's very close to my office. I bought a k-cup coffee maker that I let everyone on my floor use. Is it really that bad, that the TTC can't provide coffee pots at the terminal or drivers can't pool together and get one themselves? And if that's not an option, how about filling up your Thermos before you get to work? Where does it say that the only acceptable solution is having access to a 24/7 Coffee Time? If they want that, then the TTC should get other concessions in the next round of negotiations.

 

[nfitz]

They're getting it both ways here.

Both southbound and northbound? At Wilson? Seems an odd place.

 

[nfitz]

Can you show me where in their collective agreement, it says they can't take breaks?

If you want to go that direction, perhaps you could post the URL for the collective agreement.

And why do you keep going back to this one incident? I'm not defending this particular driver. I'm asking "What are operators supposed to do on this particular night bus".

 

[Cranky Old Fart]

A Poster on another Forum that claims to be a Driver says their is quite a bit of talk amongst the Union Brethern to pull a surprise Wild Cat Strike in protest of the ill treatment the TTC Staff at the hands of the Media & Riders as of late.

LOL I hope they do they will receive absolutely no sympathy and it might just be the lighting rod that ignites revolutionary change in this city in terms of the TTC.

 

[Dilla]

I hope this is true. See, when the workers have a problem, it's the passengers problem. When the passengers have a problem, it's the passengers problem.

 

[nfitz]

A Poster on another Forum that claims to be a Driver says their is quite a bit of talk amongst the Union Brethern to pull a surprise Wild Cat Strike in protest of the ill treatment the TTC Staff at the hands of the Media & Riders as of late.

LOL I hope they do they will receive absolutely no sympathy and it might just be the lighting rod that ignites revolutionary change in this city in terms of the TTC.

Yes ... you might well be right. The union really doesn't have a clue does it. It will only make it worse.

And while I am advocating that a driver on a night bus should be allowed to grab a coffee ... I think the use of social media to put the union's feet to the fire is excellent.

 

[kEiThZ]

If you want to go that direction, perhaps you could post the URL for the collective agreement.

Hey, you're the one saying they are not entitled to breaks. It's contingent on you to prove it.

And why do you keep going back to this one incident? I'm not defending this particular driver. I'm asking "What are operators supposed to do on this particular night bus".

Use the bathroom before his run. Bring a Thermos of coffee to work. He obviously works this route regularly and knows the restrictions that exist with operating this route at 3 AM so adjust. And he should probably talk to his supervisor and/or co-workers about acquiring a coffee machine for their station break room.

I could understand if this was a one-off incident. He had to go and so he stopped. Nobody would have begrudged him that. However, it's quite clear from this story that it's the same driver and the same route, taking the same break at the same spot, every night. If you know the route you're going to be driving doesn't have an opportunity to have a break, then prepare for it. And if you are running ahead of schedule you still should not be taking a break. That's against the rules. Simple as that. Does your employer let you off the hook that easy? Could you take an unscheduled break everyday?

 

[kEiThZ]

A Poster on another Forum that claims to be a Driver says their is quite a bit of talk amongst the Union Brethern to pull a surprise Wild Cat Strike in protest of the ill treatment the TTC Staff at the hands of the Media & Riders as of late.

LOL I hope they do they will receive absolutely no sympathy and it might just be the lighting rod that ignites revolutionary change in this city in terms of the TTC.

Exactly. That'll give the next mayor all the ammunition he needs to decimate the union. Then again, the ATU really is that dumb.

 

[kEiThZ]

I hope this is true. See, when the workers have a problem, it's the passengers problem. When the passengers have a problem, it's the passengers problem.

Let's not call them workers. That's really insulting to people who you know...actually work. When you're sleeping or on an unscheduled break that's not working.

 

[nfitz]

Hey, you're the one saying they are not entitled to breaks. It's contingent on you to prove it.

I don't think I said they are not entitled to breaks. I said there are no facilities at either terminus of that route.

I could understand if this was a one-off incident. He had to go and so he stopped. Nobody would have begrudged him that. However, it's quite clear from this story that it's the same driver and the same route, taking the same break at the same spot, every night. If you know the route you're going to be driving doesn't have an opportunity to have a break, then prepare for it. And if you are running ahead of schedule you still should not be taking a break. That's against the rules. Simple as that. Does your employer let you off the hook that easy? Could you take an unscheduled break everyday?

Your still attacking this particular driver. How many times do I have to point out that I'm not defending this particular driver, who clearly had an attitude problem.

 

[nfitz]

Let's not call them workers. That's really insulting to people who you know...actually work. When you're sleeping or on an unscheduled break that's not working.

What you have just written is completely and absolutely insulting to TTC staff. Why do you keep trying to paint the majority of workers, with the faults of a minority. This prejudice is not necessary, and not acceptable.

 

[kEiThZ]

What you have just written is completely and absolutely insulting to TTC staff. Why do you keep trying to paint the majority of workers, with the faults of a minority. This prejudice is not necessary, and not acceptable.

Boo hoo. Guess what? They're the public face of the organization. That's what happens when you're at the front of the house and screw up. Do you defend a restaurant if you get a really terrible waiter? Or are you reluctant to ever go back if you had a horrible experience? In the other thread, you complained about Air Canada's service and I am sure most of your interactions there were with mostly pleasant employees. But I am sure that it's the few terrible interactions you've had that have coloured your perception of that airline. That's life in the service sector. The TTC and its employees just don't want to acccept that they are in the service sector and that their raison d'etre is to serve the citizens of Toronto. That's why they (and their defenders) think they should not be held to the same standard that other service sector employees are held to. Tell me, what would you honestly think if you were waiting in line at Wonderland and the ride operator decided to take a 7 minute break? Would it be excusable if it was near close and there was nobody in-line? Or would you be upset because you paid for a ride?

I have no sympathy. It is telling that despite this driver taking this break every night (regardless of he's on time or not) that management didn't catch on until there was a youtube video of it. Likewise, they would not have done anything about the shift nappers if their photos didn't start appearing in the papers. If Giambrone was serious about improving service, the several sleeping employees who've been caught would have been disciplined (and the public informed about the disciplinary action). The streetcar operator who used the ATM would have bee disciplined. The operator who stopped for a falafel in close to rush hour last summer would have been disciplined. This is not some isolated incident. They have a workplace and corporate culture that tolerates poor performance and misbehaviour. And while that may not be the bulk of employees, it's unfortunately prevalent enough that it has tarred the whole organization. That's how the service sector works. If you want to protect your rep, then you have to work for it. And this is particularly so for a public sector organization. Working in a government organization, nothing makes me angrier than civil servants who live up to the myth.

I do feel sorry for the nice ones who have to put up with crap. But it's now up to them to pull their socks up and fix the place and wake up their napping brother and sisters. Image matters. If they can't fix it, people will just start driving again. I don't want that. And that's why I am hard on these guys (and gals).

 

[RapidTransit]

Very well said!

 

[nfitz]

Very well said!

No ... it's childish and immature. It's like talking to a 20-year old ...

 

[GenerationW]

20-year olds aren't children.