[MetroMan]

OMG amazing! I wonder how they'll hold up.

CLRV vs. Flexity Outlook showdown.

Not to sound like a downer but Toronto always seems to opt for boring designs. The new streetcars are going to be around for 30 years and they already look dated.

We had an opportunity to design a unique front end for our TTC streetcars that would be iconic to Toronto and instantly recognizable but we chose something safe in a 1990's design.

You don't even have to go as crazy as Lyon. These look more modern:

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Not to sound like a downer but Toronto always seems to opt for boring designs. The new streetcars are going to be around for 30 years and they already look dated.

You see, the problem is Toronto. The city specializes in boring

 

[Johnny Au]

Since Toronto is often used for filming, the TTC wasted a good opportunity to have a unique design for its LRVs, which would have been used for sci-fi media.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Since Toronto is often used for filming, the TTC wasted a good opportunity to have a unique design for its LRVs, which would have been used for sci-fi media.

What is the price difference between a white stove and a stainless-steel stove? With the current city hall administration warring against "gravy", there is no extra to be put toward "uniqueness".

 

[innsertnamehere]

Personally I am perfectly fine with the new LRVs.. They look just fine, and I like the simple paint-scheme. You don't want anything too avant-guard as you will soon be regretting it when the LRVs look extremely dated in 10 years.

 

[junctionist]

Personally I am perfectly fine with the new LRVs.. They look just fine, and I like the simple paint-scheme. You don't want anything too avant-guard as you will soon be regretting it when the LRVs look extremely dated in 10 years.

No, if it's a bland design, then you'll want to replace it in 10 years. If it's a good design, it'll look good for decades, even as more contemporary designs emerge.

 

[innsertnamehere]

OMG amazing! I wonder how they'll hold up.

Stuff like this isn't "good" design, it is the kind of stuff that will look really dated 10 years from now. the current LRVs are fairly conservative in design but also still retain a modern look, and will probably age quite nicely. (much like the current CLRVs)

 

[Jonny5]

I noticed the dots on the road that demarcate the clearance of a turning streetcar have recently been refreshed at many intersections around the city. As far as I know, these are just an FYI to TTC employees only and have no legal application to car drivers, who can ignore them and sit in a spot blocking a turning streetcar, is that correct? Is it time we change that?

Given the rate I see streetcars stalled on turns, often making cars perform dangerous maneuvers to get out of the way, shouldn't we have some more prominent markings to alert drivers where to stop? The basic "stop here" white bars are often not even located sufficiently far back from some intersections to allow clearance, especially on non-revenue route tracks. Unfortunately a lot of those non-revenue tracks see diversions that last for months and nearly every streetcar stuck in the middle of the road waiting for someone legally stopped, but still in the way. The new cars are going to block the traffic in many directions. I'd suggest we move back the white bars two metres or so, make them thicker, and add "STOP HERE" stenciled directly in front of them. It's little cost for good potential help.

 

[DSC]

Given the rate I see streetcars stalled on turns, often making cars perform dangerous maneuvers to get out of the way, shouldn't we have some more prominent markings to alert drivers where to stop?

Streetcars seldom 'stall' - what usually happens is that the pole has disconnected from the overhead and the operator has to get out to put it back in place. With pantographs this will be a far less frequent occurrence.

 

[wopchop]

Given the rate I see streetcars stalled on turns, often making cars perform dangerous maneuvers to get out of the way, shouldn't we have some more prominent markings to alert drivers where to stop?

Streetcars seldom 'stall' - what usually happens is that the pole has disconnected from the overhead and the operator has to get out to put it back in place. With pantographs this will be a far less frequent occurrence.

I believe what he meant is that the streetcar will attempt a turn, but a car will be in the way of completing said turn, causing the streetcar to "stall" until the car is out of the way. I see this happen all the time at St. Clair and Vaughan when streetcars are turning south onto Vaughan to head to Bathurst.

 

[Jonny5]

I believe what he meant is that the streetcar will attempt a turn, but a car will be in the way of completing said turn, causing the streetcar to "stall" until the car is out of the way. I see this happen all the time at St. Clair and Vaughan when streetcars are turning south onto Vaughan to head to Bathurst.

Yes, exactly. And the road markings don't tell drivers they will be in the way, unless they are aware of the obscure TTC markings. They have had the road markings set up to keep drivers out of the way of turning streetcars at a small number of intersections for years and they are moderately successful. So why not all intersections? And then add a small design improvement. It's just paint!

As a further explanation, look at the linked image and imagine that gray car had pulled up rto the white bar and stopped, like at any other intersection in Ontario. It's position would be blocking the tracks for the west to south curve; one currently in regular use until next year because of the closure of part of King near Bayview. 504 cars are blocked here constantly and the service is stalled while the car driver attempts to figure out how to move around the streetcar, which is now directly in front of it. Service gets delayed. The entire intersection is blocked. 501 cars are blocked from straight through travel on Queen, and it makes it very dangerous for pedestrians who often walk blindly into live traffic lanes to get around the streetcar blocking the crosswalk. This is probably happening 200 times a day across the many intersections in the network.


EDIT: Some streetcar operators also choose to stop and block the intersection so they can hop out and reset manual switches; another long term, daily problem that it appears the TTC is spending no effort to solve.

 

[innsertnamehere]

hard to try to solve a problem when you are getting funding cut yearly and are facing rapidly growing ridership, you hunker down to the bare basics required to continue operation.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

hard to try to solve a problem when you are getting funding cut yearly and are facing rapidly growing ridership, you hunker down to the bare basics required to continue operation.

Perhaps if we funded public transit to the same levels that we fund out road infrastructure things could be better...

 

[nfitz]

As a further explanation, look at the linked image and imagine that gray car had pulled up rto the white bar and stopped, like at any other intersection in Ontario. It's position would be blocking the tracks for the west to south curve; one currently in regular use until next year because of the closure of part of King near Bayview. 504 cars are blocked here constantly and the service is stalled while the car driver attempts to figure out how to move around the streetcar, which is now directly in front of it. Service gets delayed.

I go through this intersection on a 504 most days currently. It's not that big a deal, the streetcar starts to turn, the idiot in the automobile realises it won't fit, and pulls his car over a bit. It takes a few seconds, and is minor compared to trying to turn right on red, and wait for all the traffic lights on Parliament.

EDIT: Some streetcar operators also choose to stop and block the intersection so they can hop out and reset manual switches; another long term, daily problem that it appears the TTC is spending no effort to solve.

TTC should fix the switches. But driver blocking the intersection is probably safer and quicker than parking down the street, and blocking traffic while he walks back, and tried to work in the middle of the road to change the switches.

 

[cszwez]

Please take into consideration that all of the streetcars mentioned previously, other than TO's, are in towns not worthy of citation. Those railcars were chosen by small municipalities in order to detract from the outright insignificance of themselves. They attempted to make a statement that enhanced their otherwise forgettable identity. We Torotonians, on the other hand, have chosen to blend a modern streetcar design with our rich history of electric propulsion and street grade people moving capability into the fabric of this city. And, although I am not a proponent of streetcars(subways all the way), I do believe the design that was chosen by Toronto far exceeds any of the euro-trash, ready-to-rust crap that has been illustrated above.