[salsa]

 

[hawc]

I read they're not scheduled to roll out on the 506 College Route until 2017/18. Too bad. That's my route.

Also, these are going to be such a pain in the neck to get past in a car.

 

[W. K. Lis]

All routes that don't have and ROW will have the same issues today and having driver trying to out race the streetcar to get around it only to see more of these hits.

This reminds me. Have to get a helmet cam for my bicycle helmet and a dash cam for my car. I'm sure the new streetcars will have their on-board cameras recording everything. Too bad they couldn't send those pictures of the vehicle who make an illegal left-turn in front of the streetcar along with a fine.

Wonder if someone will post Toronto's Greatest Streetcar Hits using the Freedom Of Information so we can see the results.

 

[kotsy]

Also, these are going to be such a pain in the neck to get past in a car.

Oh, god. That's the only reason I'm not looking forward to these things. I got stuck behind one from Bay until Spadina the other day because the right lane was closed down. The streetcar was going even slower because of testing I think so it was even more maddening.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Oh, god. That's the only reason I'm not looking forward to these things. I got stuck behind one from Bay until Spadina the other day because the right lane was closed down. The streetcar was going even slower because of testing I think so it was even more maddening.

1. How many people in total in that car?
2. How many people in total in that streetcar?

Should those people in that streetcar genuflect before you in your car? No.

 

[TOareaFan]

1. How many people in total in that car?
2. How many people in total in that streetcar?

Should those people in that streetcar genuflect before you in your car? No.

Not sure anyone is saying they should.....but we are going to go through a period of adjustment and I expect we will see two patterns of behaviour to develop:

1) The more aggressive/impatient drivers will attempt to scoot past on the inside and will either cause more incidents like the one we have seen or cause confusion as they get caught beside streetcars but unable to fully pass them before the next stop and doors open.

2) The more cautious drivers will hang behind the streetcars (in both lanes) afraid of not being able to complete a safe pass before, either, the next stop or the next parked car.

Obviously the first one presents a safety issue and while the second behaviour is a less dangerous one, it does have the potential to limit/reduce road capacity.....picutre one of these new vehicles cruising along King or Queen with an empty (when there are no cars parked) lane to its right and a double row of cars trailing behind it.

Clearly, these sort of issues will not arise on Spadina, St. Clair or QQ....and will be less prevalent on routes like Bathurst with island stops. But how they operate in mixed traffic is going to create a period of adjustment for everyone.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The TTC is removing a lot of the closely spaced stops as well, and is moving the remaining ones so that they are all at least at signalized intersections. That should help quite a bit, drivers will have at least a couple hundred meters to pass them.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Not sure anyone is saying they should.....but we are going to go through a period of adjustment and I expect we will see two patterns of behaviour to develop:

1) The more aggressive/impatient drivers will attempt to scoot past on the inside and will either cause more incidents like the one we have seen or cause confusion as they get caught beside streetcars but unable to fully pass them before the next stop and doors open.

2) The more cautious drivers will hang behind the streetcars (in both lanes) afraid of not being able to complete a safe pass before, either, the next stop or the next parked car.

Obviously the first one presents a safety issue and while the second behaviour is a less dangerous one, it does have the potential to limit/reduce road capacity.....picutre one of these new vehicles cruising along King or Queen with an empty (when there are no cars parked) lane to its right and a double row of cars trailing behind it.

Clearly, these sort of issues will not arise on Spadina, St. Clair or QQ....and will be less prevalent on routes like Bathurst with island stops. But how they operate in mixed traffic is going to create a period of adjustment for everyone.

At the moment, any recordings from the new streetcars cameras can only be used in case of a collision. They can't be used to issue a letter, notice, or summons to violators who pass the cameras without causing a collision.

 

[nfitz]

Oh, god. That's the only reason I'm not looking forward to these things. I got stuck behind one from Bay until Spadina the other day because the right lane was closed down. The streetcar was going even slower because of testing I think so it was even more maddening.

Why would one drive along King, Queen, Dundas or College all the way from Bay to Spadina? There are better routes if your going that far. I tend to use Harbord/Wellesely (or Gerrard) or Richmond/Adelaide.

The TTC is removing a lot of the closely spaced stops as well, and is moving the remaining ones so that they are all at least at signalized intersections. That should help quite a bit, drivers will have at least a couple hundred meters to pass them.

Parked cars.

 

[ehlow]

Removing parking would also likely speed up the streetcars since traffic on the road in general would be faster.

Of course, many would prefer traffic to be slow since it tends to make for a more comfortable environment for pedestrians and people chilling out on patios.

 

[junior43]

Not sure anyone is saying they should.....but we are going to go through a period of adjustment and I expect we will see two patterns of behaviour to develop:

1) The more aggressive/impatient drivers will attempt to scoot past on the inside and will either cause more incidents like the one we have seen or cause confusion as they get caught beside streetcars but unable to fully pass them before the next stop and doors open.

2) The more cautious drivers will hang behind the streetcars (in both lanes) afraid of not being able to complete a safe pass before, either, the next stop or the next parked car.

Obviously the first one presents a safety issue and while the second behaviour is a less dangerous one, it does have the potential to limit/reduce road capacity.....picutre one of these new vehicles cruising along King or Queen with an empty (when there are no cars parked) lane to its right and a double row of cars trailing behind it.

Clearly, these sort of issues will not arise on Spadina, St. Clair or QQ....and will be less prevalent on routes like Bathurst with island stops. But how they operate in mixed traffic is going to create a period of adjustment for everyone.

We already have those two patterns of behaviour. They're just going to be magnified for two reasons. One, the obvious idiot accidents with them and unfamiliarity. And 2 because everything the new streetcars do will be in the news.

 

[TOareaFan]

We already have those two patterns of behaviour. They're just going to be magnified for two reasons. One, the obvious idiot accidents with them and unfamiliarity. And 2 because everything the new streetcars do will be in the news.

Both behaviours will be exacerbated by the newness and length of these vehicles. Experienced city drivers have a pretty good concept of how long it takes to pass a streetcar and how much space you need to do it.....none of them have any experience with these beauties. So the more aggressive will take a chance and go for it....and often be wrong....and the more cautious will pass up safe/appropriate opportunities to pass for fear of being wrong.

It will take time to adjust.....perhaps a good outcome would be a decent percentage of drivers avoiding the dilemma by driving on roads not called King and Queen.

 

[junior43]

Both behaviours will be exacerbated by the newness and length of these vehicles. Experienced city drivers have a pretty good concept of how long it takes to pass a streetcar and how much space you need to do it.....none of them have any experience with these beauties. So the more aggressive will take a chance and go for it....and often be wrong....and the more cautious will pass up safe/appropriate opportunities to pass for fear of being wrong.

It will take time to adjust.....perhaps a good outcome would be a decent percentage of drivers avoiding the dilemma by driving on roads not called King and Queen.

There will be a certain amount of auto-Darwinism. How driving patterns change will be very interesting. It could make one-waying those streets easier in the long run. Same goes for eglington crosstown and driving patterns too. Large amounts of change In driving habits and transit in the next 5-10 years. It will be an adventure.........

 

[the lemur]

All routes that don't have and ROW will have the same issues today and having driver trying to out race the streetcar to get around it only to see more of these hits.

I wonder if the driver was from, or familiar with, Dallas or Houston, both of which have some form of light rail ...

 

[M II A II R II K]

When there's bunching of them I'm sure they'd block intersections.