[DSC]

Progress.

Somewhere (maybe on Steve Munro's blog) I read that the reason that the 506 loops in High Park in the middle of nowhere is that to end the run at Dundas West, there would have to be a third loop which there is not - I forget if the reason is space or cash.

Take a look at the Route Histories on Transit Toronto. The High Park Loop is a very old loop (ca 1910 or earlier) and I bet the College car went there to serve people living in that area. While it is true that fitting a third route into the current Dundas West station would be virtually impossible I think it would not have been popular as the High Park loop does allow the 506 to serve a whole different group of potential passengers. See: http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4105.shtml

 

[W. K. Lis]

From a 1902 map, College Street was to continue on through High Park to get to Swansea. Today's Morningside Avenue in Swansea, would have been an extension of College Street.

Likely filling the valleys, like they did with Bloor Street to the north. Photo is of Bloor Street at High Park in 1910, with the sewer going up to the future roadway.

 

[IRT_BMT_IND]

Progress.

Somewhere (maybe on Steve Munro's blog) I read that the reason that the 506 loops in High Park in the middle of nowhere is that to end the run at Dundas West, there would have to be a third loop which there is not - I forget if the reason is space or cash.

In the past, the old single track loop at Dundas West served the King car and the Dundas car in two directions, to downtown and Runnymede, all at higher frequencies than today.

 

[pstogios]

From a 1902 map,

...
Photo is of Bloor Street at High Park in 1910, with the sewer going up to the future roadway.

Please. Stop.

Those are more than 100 years old and totally irrelevant not only to today's issues but particularly to the topic of this thread (Flexities).

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

They still run on weekdays.

True but it looks like there day will be numbered soon I would guess sometime by may or june we will see the line bel all flexes with the rest going to other routes possibly king or bathurst or maybe both?

 

[dowlingm]

If there was stepback crewing at streetcar termini, maybe loop capacity wouldn't be as much an issue because streetcars wouldn't be lingering while operators take needed breaks?

 

[TransitBart]

If there was stepback crewing at streetcar termini, maybe loop capacity wouldn't be as much an issue because streetcars wouldn't be lingering while operators take needed breaks?

What does it take to make this happen so that cars aren't diddling on hold while passengers burn?

 

[Voltz]

If there was stepback crewing at streetcar termini, maybe loop capacity wouldn't be as much an issue because streetcars wouldn't be lingering while operators take needed breaks?

Probably, but don't count on the TTC to bother thinking of considering whether or not this might be something to possibly study whether or not to do someday.

 

[crs1026]

TTC can afford the cost of having each streetcar linger in a loop for one wahroom break. The question is, why do streetcars arrive late at the loop?

If the schedule allows a few minutes layover in the loop, no big deal. All that matters is whether streetcars exit the loop on time reliably. Eliminate delays en route, and that will happen.

The relief crewing is useful on the subway because platform space is limited and a train laying over delays the following trains. Streetcar loops have a bit more spare capacity. No need to complicate things.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

TTC can afford the cost of having each streetcar linger in a loop for one wahroom break. The question is, why do streetcars arrive late at the loop?

If the schedule allows a few minutes layover in the loop, no big deal. All that matters is whether streetcars exit the loop on time reliably. Eliminate delays en route, and that will happen.

The relief crewing is useful on the subway because platform space is limited and a train laying over delays the following trains. Streetcar loops have a bit more spare capacity. No need to complicate things.

- Paul

I'm not sure that's True, Paul.

Spadina Stn? Room for how many Flexities at one time, fully within in the platform?

Then consider service frequency, where service, as scheduled has under 4m between vehicles, that's exceedingly tight to allow for a washroom break, and keeping service flowing.

I think its an entirely reasonable point that large headway services, and/or those with comfortable room for at least 2, and maybe 3 flexities in their loop/platform area don't require
relief crews; many routes fall into a different category (subject to time of day).

Mind you, if relief crews pay for themselves by allowing fewer vehicles to operate the same or more service, then that may merit their application irrespective of congestion.

 

[crs1026]

I'm not sure that's True, Paul.

Spadina Stn? Room for how many Flexities at one time, fully within in the platform?

Then consider service frequency, where service, as scheduled has under 4m between vehicles, that's exceedingly tight to allow for a washroom break, and keeping service flowing.

You make a good point - the loops typically hold two or three CLRV's, but they may not hold the same number of the longer new vehicles. There may have to be a change in practice if the loop tracks are shorter.

Four minute headway and an eight minute break is not incompatible - just means you will have two vehicles sitting in the loop at a time. Some amount of contingency padding is not a bad thing, although if it were six vehicles sitting still one would wonder about all that capital expenditure sitting still.

My point was, people see a streetcar sitting in a loop and say, "How annoying, what's the holdup?" when the right question is, "What time is that streetcar scheduled to leave, and will it leave on time?"

- Paul

PS - I have complained before about how operators deal with the float that TTC builds into its schedules, particularly on the 501. If the operator isn't feeling the bathroom urge, they may dog it on the last lap to the loop, rather than race to get there and then sit still for longer - some people like to keep moving, some like longer breaks. It's really annoying to look at Nextbus and know that your connecting bus is leaving in 7 minutes, and the operator is coasting because they are ahead of time. My own preference is that operators not lollygag towards the end of the route, unless they are ridiculously ahead of schedule. That time saved should be shared with the passengers.

 

[johntauren]

Spadina station can barely hold two flexities, and that's based on how well the first car can pull up and how close the second driver is willing to get.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Perhaps a thread could be started for old streetcar decommissioning as well.

 

[nfitz]

TTC can afford the cost of having each streetcar linger in a loop for one wahroom break. The question is, why do streetcars arrive late at the loop.

Sometimes it happens because the cars are early. If only 2 new cars fit in the loop, and you are running one every 2 minutes, it's very hard not to have 3 cars there on occasion.

 

[dowlingm]

What I foresee is TTC route inspectors dealing with potential overload at loops by short-turning cars - which means operators either don't get their breaks or have to do so at loops without washrooms etc.