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The difference in the vehicle costs and the total of the order's $1.2B has nothing to do with retooling a Bombardier factory. The $851 million is the cost for the 204 vehicles. The $1.2B is for the 204 vehicles, parts and spares, some sort of maintenance agreement, and a cost related to getting options on 194 additional vehicles. These vehicles are going to be around for at least 25 years and after they are no longer coming out of the factory the required parts to maintain them will not be easily available without an agreement.
 
It's a bit like if GM would no longer be selling the Pontiac, it still must supply the parts because of the result of accidents and maintenance for the exiting fleet.
 
Must? Hardly ... it would be in their interest to stop selling new parts; so as to promote more sales.

Does Bombardier have a catalogue full of ALRV parts? They are less than 25 years old.
 
nfitz said:
Must? Hardly ... it would be in their interest to stop selling new parts; so as to promote more sales.
Click to expand...

And how would that promote more sales? Everyone would buy a different brand in that case, knowing that GM is just going to discontinue parts for older models.
 
Has there been discussion on what TTC will be doing with their CLRV's and ALRV's when the current Bombardier order has been fulfilled?
 
ryancoke said:
Has there been discussion on what TTC will be doing with their CLRV's and ALRV's when the current Bombardier order has been fulfilled?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the Halton County Radial Railway museum may get a couple. Some could become railgrinding cars, if they still do that. Or other work cars. Myself, I think they could become snowplows or snowsweepers to clear the LRT right-of-ways.

streetcar-4510-03.jpg
 
From the New Light Rail Vehicle (LRV) Maintenance & Storage Facility project website, on the PDF for the presentation material, there is listed the LRV Fleet Delivery Schedule as follows:

LRV Fleet Delivery Schedule

  • Delivery of 6 Demonstration/Prototype vehicles
    By end of 2012
  • Delivery of 36 production vehicles annually
    Starting in 2013
  • Complete fleet delivery (204 cars)
    By end of 2018
Click to expand...

Bombardier said in their press release:
Deliveries for the 204-vehicle order are scheduled to take place between 2012 and 2018, with the first prototype vehicles arriving in 2011.
Click to expand...

Bombardier is promising 2011 for the first prototype. The six prototypes will be delivered over the course of a year. The last prototype will be delivered by the end of 2012.
 
God this is gonna be a long time coming ain't it? Quick, some start a countdown thread! Set time at 3 years....mark!
 
Mike Filey, of the Toronto Sun, has a column on the new streetcars (of 1938) in the Sunday, July 5th edition. A copy of the Friday, April 8, 1938 edition of The Evening Telegram is shown in the Toronto Sun newspaper with a headline saying "T.T.C. BUYING 140 NEW STREET CARS".

Streetcar city

That's right, T.O.'s still ...

By MIKE FILEY, SUN MEDIA

It wasn't easy, but after months of meetings documents have been signed that will ensure Toronto retains its title of "streetcar city," a fact that has been part of Toronto's identity since the privately owned Toronto Street Railway Company placed its first horse-drawn public transportation vehicles into service up and down a dusty Church St. on Sept. 11, 1861.

The first few prototypes of Toronto's new generation streetcar, the final assembly of which will take place at the Thunder Bay factory of Bombardier, are scheduled to arrive in town in 2011.

The last of the 204 vehicles should be in service by 2018. In addition, it's likely that several hundred vehicles for the proposed "suburban" Transit City project will be built using many of the features of the "city" streetcar.

Of course, this isn't the first time the TTC has purchased new streetcars.

Soon after its creation by the provincial government in 1920, money came from both the city and province to assist Toronto's new publicly owned transit commission with the purchase a large number of modern new steel streetcars (known as Peter Witts in recognition of the Cleveland transit expert responsible for their modern design).

These cars, each costing $17,000, would quickly replace the uncomfortable, inefficient and, in many cases, unsafe wooden streetcars that had been operated by the TTC's immediate predecessor, the privately owned Toronto Railway Company.

The public's acceptance of the new Toronto Transportation Commission (Transportation became Transit with the opening of the first section of Yonge subway in 1954) was immediate with many thousands riding the much-expanded and improved system every day.

In an effort to stay "ahead of the curve" (not something they'd say back then, but you know what I mean), senior staff of the TTC joined with staff of several other large North American transit companies to help develop a new streetcar, one that would eventually replace the TTC's aging fleet.

The result of this international project was an ultra-modern vehicle to be identified as the "Presidents' Conference Committee Streamliner" or simply the PCC. Initially, interest in purchasing this new streetcar was not overwhelming and it wasn't until the TTC put in its request for 140 of the new cars that the future of the PCC was assured.

Over time, the Commission purchased 540 new and 205 second-hand PCCs for a total of 745, one of the largest PCC fleets in the world. While the last one ran in regular service here in Toronto in December of 1995, two are still made available by the TTC for charters.

An interesting fact concerning the TTC's initial order for 140 new PCC cars is that they cost the Commission $3 million or approximately $21,500 each, with none of that money coming from the city or the province or the federal government (not sure if John Baird was around back then). The total order was paid for out of the TTC's surplus account.

And perhaps even more surprising, the deal was even done without the approval of city council. Such was the status of the TTC in 1938.
Click to expand...
 
TTC facility for Ashbridges Bay

The purchase of new LRV streetcars will double the carrying capacity on overly congested lines such as Queen St. This is a wonderful transit improvement for downtown.

The article on locating the new TTC LRV streetcar maintenance facility gives the impression that I support locating it on the Eastern Ave. site. While agreeing with the need to have this facility in the east end, I have very strong concerns over the impact of noise and vibrations on the Studio District, which is a vital anchor for good jobs in this community. Many residents as well as the Toronto Film Board share those concerns.

I have requested that the TTC choose the Ashbridges Bay option, which would still bring 540 jobs into the east end, along with developing a local hiring and training plan for these new jobs.

Paula Fletcher, Councillor,
City of Toronto

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/663067
 
It was stated today at Metrolinx meeting, that all TC cars will not be the same as the current order to the point they could be standard gauge. A total different RFP will be issue for them. If that happens, we will see 5 or more suppliers bidding on them.

All the new TC cars will not be own by TTC nor the City and this includes the ROW and tracks.

This will also apply to any other transit system under MoveOntario2020 plan.

Doors are slowing been open for other PPP operators. TTC will have first crack of operating TC under their colour as well for VIVA in York Region.
 
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