[syn]

Amen.

Unique transit vehicles are great fun until they need spare parts.

The design is unique enough. Yes, it's a Flexity and those things run around in a handful of European cities, but they all are styled differently.

And why design a transit vehicle from scratch? Isn't that kind of thinking what has plagued the TTC before (eg. SRT)? Just use something that's been proven in other cities.

I saw one of the new streetcars on a test run last night and I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. It was unique enough that it felt like a TTC vehicle that fits into the city fabric and the TTCs established brand, instead of being a generic model with a paint job.

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

I saw one of the new streetcars on a test run last night and I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. It was unique enough that it felt like a TTC vehicle that fits into the city fabric and the TTCs established brand, instead of being a generic model with a paint job.

The PCC car was just a generic model with a TTC paint job. Somehow it became the most iconic image of Toronto streetcars, i.e. TTC's established brand and fit into the city fabric such that images of PCCs were everywhere in artwork of Toronto.

 

[Platform 27]

Please take into consideration that all of the streetcars mentioned previously, other than TO's, are in towns not worthy of citation. Those railcars were chosen by small municipalities in order to detract from the outright insignificance of themselves. They attempted to make a statement that enhanced their otherwise forgettable identity.

You do realize the LRVs illustrated in the last two pages are from Warsaw, Brussels, Lyon and Marseilles, right? I'm sure residents of those insignificant towns unworthy of citation lie awake at night, dreaming of the day their community will be as self-evidently world class as mighty Toronto.

 

[mrxbombastic]

EDIT: Some streetcar operators also choose to stop and block the intersection so they can hop out and reset manual switches; another long term, daily problem that it appears the TTC is spending no effort to solve.

Wrong. With the TTC track reconstruction program they are taking the opportunity to swap out the manual switches for ones that can be operated remotely wherever this is feasible. As the driver approaches the switch/intersection, a signal is sent out from the streetcar which triggers the switch to move the track. After the streetcar moves through the switch the original position is reinstated. This reduces the number of times drivers need to stop and move the switch manually. now if the mechanism gets jammed due to unforeseen factors drivers will still have the ability to move the switch themselves.

So to say the TTC isn't addressing this is completely wrong and a denigration of the work they are doing to make their system run more efficiently and effectively.

 

[Jonny5]

Wrong. With the TTC track reconstruction program they are taking the opportunity to swap out the manual switches for ones that can be operated remotely wherever this is feasible. As the driver approaches the switch/intersection, a signal is sent out from the streetcar which triggers the switch to move the track. After the streetcar moves through the switch the original position is reinstated. This reduces the number of times drivers need to stop and move the switch manually. now if the mechanism gets jammed due to unforeseen factors drivers will still have the ability to move the switch themselves.

So to say the TTC isn't addressing this is completely wrong and a denigration of the work they are doing to make their system run more efficiently and effectively.

I am aware of the decades delayed project to replaces switched

 

[Jonny5]

Wrong. With the TTC track reconstruction program they are taking the opportunity to swap out the manual switches for ones that can be operated remotely wherever this is feasible. As the driver approaches the switch/intersection, a signal is sent out from the streetcar which triggers the switch to move the track. After the streetcar moves through the switch the original position is reinstated. This reduces the number of times drivers need to stop and move the switch manually. now if the mechanism gets jammed due to unforeseen factors drivers will still have the ability to move the switch themselves.

So to say the TTC isn't addressing this is completely wrong and a denigration of the work they are doing to make their system run more efficiently and effectively.

I am aware of decades long program to roll out replacement switch systems at some locations. It's a pathetic timetable that has moved us back two steps and forward one for years and years. This has nothing to do with switches jamming.

 

[mrxbombastic]

I am aware of decades long program to roll out replacement switch systems at some locations. It's a pathetic timetable that has moved us back two steps and forward one for years and years. This has nothing to do with switches jamming.

Though we can quibble about the timetable of the project (and I agree some TTC projects take longer than seemingly necessary) and the extent to which the changes are rolling out, how is this a two steps back, one step forward situation? The project is being rolled out with an improvement to the system. In an article in 2011 here on Torontoist, Brad Ross stated that 70% of the switches were electric. I dont see how there are any backward steps.

Failing of the switches are largely due to lack of maintenance over the years and weather I would presume. As to how TTC is addressing this, Steve Munro had a blog post about TTC switches here which spoke, in the comment, to possible TTC plans for perhaps looking at new switching systems to accompany the rollout of the new cars. I dont know what the status of this possibility is but perhaps you can speak to it Johnny5?

PS sorry if i came on a little strong. It just infuriates me when people say the TTC does nothing to make things better with the streetcar system, despite the improvements I've noticed on the routes I frequent.

 

[nfitz]

Failing of the switches are largely due to lack of maintenance over the years and weather I would presume. As to how TTC is addressing this, Steve Munro had a blog post about TTC switches here which spoke, in the comment, to possible TTC plans for perhaps looking at new switching systems to accompany the rollout of the new cars. I dont know what the status of this possibility is but perhaps you can speak to it Johnny5?

That article was 5 years ago! Back then TTC was indicating that the switch problem would have been dealt with years ago, but has there been any progress? There are switches that are newer than that that don't work. And more that have failed since then.

 

[mrxbombastic]

That article was 5 years ago! Back then TTC was indicating that the switch problem would have been dealt with years ago, but has there been any progress? There are switches that are newer than that that don't work. And more that have failed since then.

Yes it was a long time ago hence I asked if anyone new what the status of the possibility was, complete/progressing/dead etc. but given the response ill assume we don't have a definitive answer.

Yes these switch failures need to be addressed hence I asked if anyone on the forum had insight into the sate of the proposal. Ill see if i can get a more definitive statement from the TTC.

 

[DSC]

Yes it was a long time ago hence I asked if anyone new what the status of the possibility was, complete/progressing/dead etc. but given the response ill assume we don't have a definitive answer.

Yes these switch failures need to be addressed hence I asked if anyone on the forum had insight into the state of the proposal. Ill see if i can get a more definitive statement from the TTC.

The TTC finally seems to have fixed the automatic switch at King and Church which was out of action for ages. They still have done nothing with the busy switch at King and Parliament (it is now set permanently east to north because King is closed.) I agree that the TTC has made many improvements over the past few years (stop announcements, next-bus displays and of course the new streetcars and subway trains) but they DO have a 'switch problem" - the fixing of which keeps getting postponed.

An official update from the TTC would be a good idea. How many manual switches do they have? How many automated switches? How many manual switches are scheduled for upgrading? How many automated ones actually work?

 

[smallspy]

Keep in mind that we're dealing with different failures here - very seldom does the system as a whole fail.

The switch machines and their controlling circuitry are generally quite reliable. There are the odd locations where their installation seems to be problematic, such as east King to south Church, but those are rare.

What is much more common, and appears to be a switch failure, is the failure of one of the two antennas on each car. The lead antenna tells the switch which position the switch points should move to and locks them in place, while the trailing antenna unlocks the switch for the next car.

The problem arises when the trailing antenna doesn't work, and doesn't unlock the switch - the next car through will have to manually throw the switch.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[calimehtar]

I've been thinking over opinions I have read in various threads (DRL, transit city, new streetcars) - almost everyone seems to agree that subways are always the best option, but because they are expensive sometimes we need to look at alternatives. I have always loved Toronto's streetcars, without having any particular reason for feeling this way, and while acknowledging that in too many cases it is faster to walk than take the streetcar.

A few things have cemented this for me, one is the realization that building a DRL could mean the end of one of the downtown streetcar lines. The other is these renderings of the east end of the Eglinton LRT where it runs on the surface. Of course here we are not technically talking about streetcars, but what a transformation if the east of Eglinton could look like that.

I found this article which discusses streetcar expansion in the US and explains some benefits of streetcars:
http://www.streets.mn/2013/03/12/six-less-obvious-benefits-to-streetcars/

One that is almost taboo to discuss is traffic calming - arguably one of the reasons that Toronto streets with streetcars are so popular for shoppers and cyclists is that the car traffic is slower and improves the ambience. It is not only good for local residents - streets like King and Queen, burdened with streetcars as they are, and almost impossible to move on with automobiles, practically define our city. They are where Torontonians go for dinner and to meet friends. Not the downtown freeways like Richmond, Adelaide and Jarvis.

Another advantage of streetcars that is more intangible - streetcars work best when the entire street is built around them. Which is completely appropriate when you look at the number of people these vehicles carry compared to the automobiles sharing the same amount of space. The result can be quite appealing aesthetically (see the Eglington rendering). I think St. Clair is a much more attractive street than it was before, with the right of way.

Subways, despite being incredibly expensive, tend to support the notion that surface streets are for private automobiles and have practically zero impact on the streetscape. They are great for moving people around but not so great for creating a neighborhood.

 

[DSC]

I've been thinking over opinions I have read in various threads (DRL, transit city, new streetcars) - almost everyone seems to agree that subways are always the best option,

I am not sure that this is correct (Or more directly, I am sure it's wrong!) Subways are certainly best for speed and for moving a lot of people but they are really not better if the anticipated passenger traffic is low and one cannot look at whether something is "better" without considering cost (and what else one could do with the extra money!) I think it is far more accurate to say that there is a hierarchy of modes of public transit. Bus is for the lowest volumes and subway for the highest with streetcar/LRT in the middle.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I...
A few things have cemented this for me, one is the realization that building a DRL could mean the end of one of the downtown streetcar lines...

Depends upon if the DRL is to be built as a streetcar route replacement for local users or as an actual relief for suburban users.

If it is to allow for a rapid route to get downtown, then an express route with limited stations is all that is needed (and cheaper to build since less stations have to be built). If the Eglinton and Bloor-Danforth will be feeding it, then little or no streetcars would be affected.

If it is for local users, then many more stations would have to built for them to use it. Of course, the more stations to be built, the slower the DRL will be. The suburban ride may want to continue to use the Yonge line to avoid the additional stops along the way, if it does not get close to their final destination.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

I am not sure that this is correct (Or more directly, I am sure it's wrong!) Subways are certainly best for speed and for moving a lot of people but they are really not better if the anticipated passenger traffic is low and one cannot look at whether something is "better" without considering cost (and what else one could do with the extra money!) I think it is far more accurate to say that there is a hierarchy of modes of public transit. Bus is for the lowest volumes and subway for the highest with streetcar/LRT in the middle.

Actually, he is correct. The prevailing opinion from many members on this board is that subways are better than LRT/Streetcars, and if subways can't handle the job, than BRT should be the answer, because LRT is just too expensive. There seems to be a borderline obsession with subways and BRT on this board. I think a lot of members on this board are simply ignorant of the capabilities of LRT, and would prefer overly expensive subways, or BRT.