[TheTigerMaster]

Concerns raised about TTC fare inspectors carrying batons & handcuffs

Read More: http://www.citynews.ca/2014/12/11/c...tc-fare-inspectors-carrying-batons-handcuffs/

A Toronto city councillor says he’s disturbed that the TTC’s new fare inspectors will be armed with batons and handcuffs. Coun. Gord Perks says arming the inspectors is “inappropriate” and sends the wrong message to commuters.

“Right now the TTC is putting staff onto transit vehicles that are armed with batons and carry handcuffs that don’t have any supervision or public accountability through the police service. That’s just wrong.” --- Since August, some fare inspectors have been carrying what the TTC calls “self-defence” tools, as they inspect proof-of-payment on streetcar routes that allow all-door boarding.

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These paranoid wannabe cops can lose the batons. If other TTC employees don't need them, then these fare inspectors don't need them either.

 

[Voltz]

They absolutely should not be permitted to have arrest powers unless these are law enforcement officers.

Everyone has arrest powers.

 

[drum118]

Everyone has arrest powers.

Yep!!

Have held 2 people over the years until the police arrived, who took them away to be charge at the station. Known as Citizen Arrest.

They were found guilty at trial.

 

[nfitz]

I know that. I meant that they should not have additional arrest powers that civilians do not have.

What additional arrest powers do they have?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Everyone has arrest powers.

I know that. I meant that they should not have the additional arrest powers that LEOs have.

Nor should they be carrying batons. I know that the law permits them to do so, but I really do not see the need for it. Other TTC employees and TPS parking enforcement officers are unarmed. I don't see why care inspectors need to be.The last thing we need is to put riders at potential risk for violent confrontation by arming civilians fare inspectors. If they have a problem, they can call 911 like all other civilians

And before someone suggest that they need to protect themselves, this line of work they chose isn't particularly dangerous. If they fear for their safety in this job then they should quit. And if one of them gets hurt, well that's unfortunate but too bad.

 

[Catenary]

Most of the time when I tap my Presto card I'd like to know what my balance is. Others may be interested in how much money was deducted from their card. Given the size of the screens you'd think it would be feasible to at least convey some valuable info.

The identical fare readers in Ottawa have different programming, showing the PRESTO logo rather than the arrow before you tap. The machines also show your balance, but only for a second and in a useless 12 point font. If you miss it and try to re-tap the machine goes red and says "ALREADY TAPPED", giving you no more information.

The reason I look for my balance when I tap is because I want to know if my online load went through.

 

[Voltz]

I know that. I meant that they should not have the additional arrest powers that LEOs have.

Nor should they be carrying batons. I know that the law permits them to do so, but I really do not see the need for it. Other TTC employees and TPS parking enforcement officers are unarmed. I don't see why care inspectors need to be.The last thing we need is to put riders at potential risk for violent confrontation by arming civilians fare inspectors. If they have a problem, they can call 911 like all other civilians

And before someone suggest that they need to protect themselves, this line of work they chose isn't particularly dangerous. If they fear for their safety in this job then they should quit. And if one of them gets hurt, well that's unfortunate but too bad.

They do not have additional arrest powers, just what everyone else has, and what are you so outraged about? The TTC decided the fare inspectors should have batons, the inspectors themselves did not cower in fear until they were given sticks to wear on their belts.

It is a workplace health and safety issue, the employer is required to provide necessary safety equipment, the employee should not just quit.

 

[EnviroTO]

Considering the abuse TTC drivers are subjected to and the fact that these people will be finding people who did not pay, I think it is reasonable to assume that the fare inspectors will see people who will become confrontational. Definitely there should be adequate training to try and ensure that these inspectors remain calm throughout and don't loose their cool as fast as a confrontational rider might, but if the rider becomes physical I think it is important to have these collectors trained to handle the situation with the right tools for the job. I would be concerned with tazers or guns, but sticks and cuffs seem reasonable from a tooling perspective... of course it all comes down to appropriate usage.

 

[DSC]

Considering the abuse TTC drivers are subjected to and the fact that these people will be finding people who did not pay, I think it is reasonable to assume that the fare inspectors will see people who will become confrontational. Definitely there should be adequate training to try and ensure that these inspectors remain calm throughout and don't loose their cool as fast as a confrontational rider might, but if the rider becomes physical I think it is important to have these collectors trained to handle the situation with the right tools for the job. I would be concerned with tazers or guns, but sticks and cuffs seem reasonable from a tooling perspective... of course it all comes down to appropriate usage.

+1

 

[TheTigerMaster]

They do not have additional arrest powers, just what everyone else has, and what are you so outraged about? The TTC decided the fare inspectors should have batons, the inspectors themselves did not cower in fear until they were given sticks to wear on their belts.

It is a workplace health and safety issue, the employer is required to provide necessary safety equipment, the employee should not just quit.

Like I said, their jobs are not particularly dangerous. There are far more dangerous jobs out there. If we're going to arm fare inspectors against people, why not arm all employees who may have to interact with the public?

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Give TTC employers the power to bop someone in the head when they put their dirty boots on the seats

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think the TTC needs to make the public aware of exactly what powers the Transit Enforcement Officers have and what right the public has to defend themselves against the TEOs.

For example, if I were to flee a citizens arrest, would the TEO be allowed to use their weapon against me? If a civilian were to commit some kind of minor assault, such as spitting on a TEO, can the officer use their weapon against the individual?
If a TEO were to assault a civilian, is the civilian allowed to defend themselves against the TEO and to what degree? Are civilians allowed to use force to defend themselves against TEOs if they attempt to detain or assault them? What liability would the City be under if one of these officers were to injure, kill or unjustly detain a rider? If a passenger is unjustly detained, is it their right to use force against the TEO to escape? Do I even have to talk to a TEO when stopped, or can I completely ignore their presence?


Remember that Transit Enforcement Officers are not Law Enforcement Officers. They are civilians with batons and a scary uniform. This introduces a whole new dynamic when interacting with the public.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I imagine that they would operate under the same rules that private security firms operate under.

If someone refuses to leave property (TTC vehicle, subway stop, etc.) when asked, he/she may be viewed as a trespasser. Guards can use reasonable force to remove trespassers and they can make a citizen's arrest if a trespasser actively resists lawful efforts to remove them.

Batons, etc. would be used only in self defence and would not be used to forcefully remove a patron from the property. If the patron refuses to leave the property even after the use of reasonable force, the citizens arrest comes into play, which is when the handcuffs would come out.

 

[BurlOak]

If someone refuses to leave property (TTC vehicle, subway stop, etc.) when asked, he/she may be viewed as a trespasser. Guards can use reasonable force to remove trespassers and they can make a citizen's arrest if a trespasser actively resists lawful efforts to remove them.

So the worst thing that will happen if I ride without a ticket is that I am asked to leave [ and then take the next bus or streetcar]. Why bother buying a ticket?

 

[TOareaFan]

So the worst thing that will happen if I ride without a ticket is that I am asked to leave [ and then take the next bus or streetcar]. Why bother buying a ticket?

On GO, I think you get to finish your journey....of course you get a ticket that is something like $80 or so.