[T3G]

Pondering a rebuild in 2014 would've made perfect sense. The oldest cars were 18 then, which would've put them at just over the halfway point for a lifespan of 35 years, but were not so wizened that a rebuild would've been throwing good money after bad.

It's too bad they didn't make good on those ideas then. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion, and the general public wouldn't be running around in a panic that SRT derailment part II is imminent.

 

[81-717]

Pondering a rebuild in 2014 would've made perfect sense. The oldest cars were 18 then, which would've put them at just over the halfway point for a lifespan of 35 years, but were not so wizened that a rebuild would've been throwing good money after bad.

That would've been a regular midlife rebuild to ensure the oldest last 35 years, not a life extension to have them make it to 45.
With the exception of 3 car types (H1, H2, H6), all other TTC cars (including the SRT) have always retired in the 35–40 range.

 

[smallspy]

The point is that age itself shouldn't be as much of a concern as maintenance is.

I'm not saying the T1s SHOULD last to 60 years, but if they are so profusely concerned that line 2 will have to be shut down because they can't get replacements on hand in time, common sense would've dictated a rebuild several years ago (say, 2017-18), so that the subway cars are in fine form to keep going if their replacements are delayed, but also that it wouldn't have been a total waste of money if the replacement cars had been available as scheduled. We've seen this nonsense time and again, the CLRV replacement was not on time, the SRT replacement was not on time, the GM replacement was not on time - AND there is no guarantee that the replacement cars wouldn't have been lemons that would have required the T1s to keep going even longer. It is the height of stupidity to assume that it will be and that no actions need to be taken to secure the reliable operation of line 2 going forward.

But of course, that would require a bit of planning for the future, which Toronto is terrible at. Distract the unwashed masses with promises of shiny new trains, and don't do anything about the equipment you've already got.

Perhaps you are confused about what they are concerned about.

Safety is not the issue.

The problem is that as the vehicles age, they become less reliable. And especially with modern, computer-controlled ones, that means that circuits vital to the operation of the vehicles may fail.

And surprise of surprises, many of those components are either no longer available or are only available at greater prices than they were before. Which increases the maintenance budget. Which puts more strain on the system.

You touched on the issue - that the purchase of replacement trains has been delayed - but have missed the point that maintenance is not the problem. No amount of maintenance is going to keep a circuit going once the magic smoke has been let out.

Dan

 

[81-717]

Perhaps you are confused about what they are concerned about.

Safety is not the issue.

The problem is that as the vehicles age, they become less reliable. And especially with modern, computer-controlled ones, that means that circuits vital to the operation of the vehicles may fail.

And surprise of surprises, many of those components are either no longer available or are only available at greater prices than they were before. Which increases the maintenance budget. Which puts more strain on the system.

You touched on the issue - that the purchase of replacement trains has been delayed - but have missed the point that maintenance is not the problem. No amount of maintenance is going to keep a circuit going once the magic smoke has been let out.

Dan

Out of curiosity, how much (if at all) has the reliability of the T1s dropped compared to when they were new?

 

[Voltz]

There is also the issue of the signal system needing to be replaced, and the cost of retrofitting the trains to ATC, if the T1's get a life extension, adding ATC to the trains would increase the cost of a refit for a short few years of service.

 

[drum118]

There is also the issue of the signal system needing to be replaced, and the cost of retrofitting the trains to ATC, if the T1's get a life extension, adding ATC to the trains would increase the cost of a refit for a short few years of service.

If one looks at how long it took TTC to change Line 1 to ATO as well the miss dates, one can say that the T1`'s have at least another 10 years of service in front of them before the new fleet is needed

It would be nice to have the TR's on Line 2 today, but the lack of funding is a big issue.

TTC needs to rethink the length of the new fleet that they fit the full 500' of the platform and be assign to Line 1 and move the needed TR's to Line 2 until they have to be replace like the new fleet that has to be order.

Its a waste of money to refit the T1's to ATO.

 

[turbanplanner]

The sad part is, once the duct tape hits the trains they will be too far gone to get replacements in time. We need to start ordering now, not when the cars are so bad we consider them a safety hazard.

One thing I hate is the lead time for these cars.. you can get new cars but it will take 6 years before they arrive! Grab something off the shelf or at least with the ability to mass produce these things.

This is one of the things I hate about Toronto. We call ourselves "World Class" and attempt to attract business along with investors to the city. Toronto is a dump because of all the wasted money, lack of spending, etc.

Honestly, if Politicians would get off their lazy asses and actually spend money we would have a much better city. Unfortunately, any repairs to the TTC, increase to service or replacement of cars needs endless studies, reports and begging for money before they can even consider a prolonged and overinflated tender process.

Speaking of wasted money they just re-did a 1 year old bus stop

If one looks at how long it took TTC to change Line 1 to ATO as well the miss dates, one can say that the T1`'s have at least another 10 years of service in front of them before the new fleet is needed

It would be nice to have the TR's on Line 2 today, but the lack of funding is a big issue.

TTC needs to rethink the length of the new fleet that they fit the full 500' of the platform and be assign to Line 1 and move the needed TR's to Line 2 until they have to be replace like the new fleet that has to be order.

Its a waste of money to refit the T1's to ATO.

The TR's won't fit at greenwood

 

[drum118]

Speaking of wasted money they just re-did a 1 year old bus stop

The TR's won't fit at greenwood

The yard has to be modify somewhat, but need the new West End Yard that underfunded and will take a decade to build. First issue is getting under CP Corridor to the new complex and not going to be cheap to do

Cars that need service will have to use Wilson with train store along the line at night. 8 cars can be store at Keele Yard with 5 at Kipling once they connect the 3rd trail track to the mainline.

 

[smallspy]

The TR's won't fit at greenwood

They fit just fine. The exterior envelope of each TR is the exact same as every other 75' long subway car before it. Greenwood was designed to store 6-car trainsets, which the TRs are arranged in.

What Greenwood can't do is maintain the TRs efficiently. That's what any rebuild of Greenwood will need to do - reconfigure certain areas to better suit whatever form the new subway trains take.

Dan

 

[Jonny5]

I went to work downtown a little later than normal today, arriving at 8:30 instead of 8:00, and there were streetcars backed up all over the place on King Street. I haven't seen queues of four streetcars at intersections like that since before the King transit priority corridor was setup.

I know that 30 minutes can make a huge difference in traffic, but this looked much more like it was the new 501D/503 route configurations that are badly clogging up everything. There's simply too many trying to get through at once, especially eastbound.

 

[DSC]

I went to work downtown a little later than normal today, arriving at 8:30 instead of 8:00, and there were streetcars backed up all over the place on King Street. I haven't seen queues of four streetcars at intersections like that since before the King transit priority corridor was setup.

I know that 30 minutes can make a huge difference in traffic, but this looked much more like it was the new 501D/503 route configurations that are badly clogging up everything. There's simply too many trying to get through at once, especially eastbound.

Which intersection are you talking about?

 

[Jonny5]

Which intersection are you talking about?

On King from University through to Church.

 

[evandyk]

I was just at King and Bay, and there are street cars as far as the eye can see in both directions, and a cop directing traffic at the corner.

 

[DSC]

I was just at King and Bay, and there are street cars as far as the eye can see in both directions, and a cop directing traffic at the corner.

The downtown is filled with contractors doing road repairs - traffic has been dreadful for last few weeks.

 

[evandyk]

I'm there every day, and this was unusual, even by recent standards.