[Northern Light]

Getting bus priority right. Lessons from Bologna​

Why our buses are slow and what need to be done to make them fast.
(Applies to streetcars as well.)











Best to go to this link to read the entire article.

It is a very good piece.

This is a very key item:

Push the average average stop distances up above 350M and speeds increase significantly.

This is not a secret; the TTC already knows this, I know this, I'm sure many here do. Its a matter of the political will to cut stops (and their associated traffic lights in some cases, where lights were added just to make crossing to/from the stop safer)

Another excellent graphic deals w/how passengers board/alight:

Here we are looking at few things;

1) Is all-door loading permitted

2) How many doors on a bus

3) How are those doors assigned for boarding/alighting.

***

A simple idea as well is the placement of fare validating machines in the inteior of the bus, so that people don't obstruct the doors while tapping or fumbling for a card. Note that this requires eliminating fare boxes and transfers issued by drivers (I support this as well)

***

Good discussion about the role of too many controlled intersections (for most purposes, traffic lights) we have at least twice as many as we ought to:

 

[DSC]

It is a very good piece.

This is a very key item:

View attachment 522570

Push the average average stop distances up above 350M and speeds increase significantly.

This is not a secret; the TTC already knows this, I know this, I'm sure many here do. Its a matter of the political will to cut stops (and their associated traffic lights in some cases, where lights were added just to make crossing to/from the stop safer)

Another excellent graphic deals w/how passengers board/alight:

View attachment 522563



Here we are looking at few things;

1) Is all-door loading permitted

2) How many doors on a bus

3) How are those doors assigned for boarding/alighting.

***

A simple idea as well is the placement of fare validating machines in the inteior of the bus, so that people don't obstruct the doors while tapping or fumbling for a card. Note that this requires eliminating fare boxes and transfers issued by drivers (I support this as well)

***

Good discussion about the role of too many controlled intersections (for most purposes, traffic lights) we have at least twice as many as we ought to:

View attachment 522569



View attachment 522567

It is, of course, not unexpected that if one has more (closer) stops the trip will take longer; that's why transit agencies (including TTC) often have Express Routes and local ones on the same streets. However, transit is for real people and real people do not want to (or can't) walk too far so like to have closer stops (at least for 'their stop").

 

[Northern Light]

It is, of course, not unexpected that if one has more (closer) stops the trip will take longer; that's why transit agencies (including TTC) often have Express Routes and local ones on the same streets. However, transit is for real people and real people do not want to (or can't) walk too far so like to have closer stops (at least for 'their stop").

If one needs para-transit, I support its availability and good service levels.

If you are mobile, then I don't think asking people to walk, on average, an extra 100M to a stop is excessive.

 

[T3G]

I think the Harbourfront has very good stop spacing - much more in line with European tramways than the average for the city. We should copy that.

 

[Richard White]

I think the Harbourfront has very good stop spacing - much more in line with European tramways than the average for the city. We should copy that.

That is not something we want to emulate necessarily.

In Budapest, they trams stop so frequently they are not the quickest route to get anywhere. Pretty to look at but that is about it.

 

[evandyk]

The Sherbourne bus stops three times between Richmond and Front. That whole stretch is probably less than 200 metres.

 

[T3G]

That is not something we want to emulate necessarily.

In Budapest, they trams stop so frequently they are not the quickest route to get anywhere. Pretty to look at but that is about it.

And ours are what, bullet trains?

 

[Northern Light]

I think the Harbourfront has very good stop spacing - much more in line with European tramways than the average for the city. We should copy that.

I would argue strongly for removing the stop at Dan Leckie; its only 119M from the stop at Bathurst, while, admittedly, it is ~380M from there to Spadina, no one would have to walk further than 380M to a stop.

The rest is fairly reasonable. However, the LRT is often stuck at reds, in both directions, that's a problem, the signal timings associated with the light immediately east of Spadina which doesn't serve a cross street, but rather a parking entrance and the streetcar loop are entirely unreasonable.

I've also noticed that LRT drivers seem unwilling to cross the light at the same time as an LRT in the opposite direction....... I find that really odd. But quite consistently one operator waits for the other to cross, even while they have a transit signal to go.

 

[DSC]

The Sherbourne bus stops three times between Richmond and Front. That whole stretch is probably less than 200 metres.

Yes, though all three of these stops are fairly well patronised and (unlike a subway train) if nobody wants off and nobody is at stop the bus does not stop. (The stops at King and Front are also at stop lights so the vehicles may well be stopped anyway.

 

[Northern Light]

The Sherbourne bus stops three times between Richmond and Front. That whole stretch is probably less than 200 metres.

Lets look at the NB stop spacing there.

Front to King: 114m

King to Adelaide - farside: 152m

Adelaide to Queen, nearside: 202M

So we have 4 stops covering a total distance of 458M

Average distance between stops 152M

I think 3 stops would suffice:

Front, King, Queen.

To space these as evenly as possible, Front nearside, King farside, Queen nearside.

That would boost average distance to 229M which is still quite low, but allows for Front as the first major street north of the railway, and transit connections at King and Queen.

The longest distance would be King to Queen at ~297M

 

[evandyk]

I've also noticed that LRT drivers seem unwilling to cross the light at the same time as an LRT in the opposite direction....... I find that really odd. But quite consistently one operator waits for the other to cross, even while they have a transit signal to go.

Isn't that one of their safety rules?

 

[Northern Light]

Isn't that one of their safety rules?

@smallspy would be best to consult on that one. If it is, I'd be interested to hear the reasoning.

 

[T3G]

I would argue strongly for removing the stop at Dan Leckie; its only 119M from the stop at Bathurst, while, admittedly, it is ~380M from there to Spadina, no one would have to walk further than 380M to a stop.

The rest is fairly reasonable. However, the LRT is often stuck at reds, in both directions, that's a problem, the signal timings associated with the light immediately east of Spadina which doesn't serve a cross street, but rather a parking entrance and the streetcar loop are entirely unreasonable.

I've also noticed that LRT drivers seem unwilling to cross the light at the same time as an LRT in the opposite direction....... I find that really odd. But quite consistently one operator waits for the other to cross, even while they have a transit signal to go.

I definitely don't think Harbourfront is something we should emulate in terms of operations, just in terms of stop spacing. I will concede you the Dan Leckie stop, but I don't really go west of Spadina more than twice a year, so that's not really the segment I was thinking of.

The worst operations faux pas is the stupid song and dance they do around the barriers into the Bay St tunnel. I don't think the tram goes any quicker than walking distance from York all the way to Queens Quay station. Even if the gate is left opened, the car still crawls at walking speed towards it, stops, and then crawls on.

Did a TTC executive's house get destroyed by a detailed streetcar? What the hell is this?

Yes, though all three of these stops are fairly well patronised and (unlike a subway train) if nobody wants off and nobody is at stop the bus does not stop. (The stops at King and Front are also at stop lights so the vehicles may well be stopped anyway.

But if the stops are used, then you're stopping every few meters to offload passengers, which is nonsense. Northern Light has provided some very sound figures above; I don't know why less than 300 meters between stops would be a problem.

 

[evandyk]

I recall there was some mention, probably around here, of an outdated safety rationale. It was probably him.

 

[Mount Dennis Resident]

Isn't that one of their safety rules?

Do the heavy rail subway trains follow the same rules at crossover tracks in the tunnels or in the open sections? Will Line 5 and Line 6 follow the same rules?