[Streety McCarface]

A '"subway" is defined as "an underground electric railroad". Therefore all underground railways, including the Bay Street streetcar tunnel between Queens Quay and Union, and the underground loops at Spadina Station and St. Clair West Station, could be included.

That still only makes 79 km of "subway" at best.

 

[robmausser]

That would have exceeded 83km

Are you counting the entire LRT, or just the underground portion from Laird to Mount Dennis?

 

[hw621]

Are you counting the entire LRT, or just the underground portion from Laird to Mount Dennis?

System length 76.9 km (47.8 mi)[1][2]
19 km (12 mi) (under construction)[5]
6.2 km (3.9 mi) (approved)[6]

This is the data from Wikipedia. If we only count the 10KM underground it would have been 86.9km?

 

[Leo_Chan]

Can we just agree that the length isn't completely accurate and has an error of +/- 10km? The fact is we have much smaller subway system length than the other two compared.

 

[hw621]

Can we just agree that the length isn't completely accurate and has an error of +/- 10km? The fact is we have much smaller subway system length than the other two compared.

Yes it is a little embarrassing, even when the population of those two cities is far greater than that of Toronto. What about commuter rails? Do they have commuter rails within city boundaries, like GO?

 

[Streety McCarface]

Yes it is a little embarrassing, even when the population of those two cities is far greater than that of Toronto. What about commuter rails? Do they have commuter rails within city boundaries, like GO?

New York: PATH (4-subway/commuter lines), New Jersey Transit (Electrified Railroad, some trains stop in Newark, second busiest in North America), MTA Long Island Railroad (Busiest Railroad in North America, Electrified), Metro-North Railroad (4th Busiest in North America, most of the system electrified), Amtrak (Northeast Regional and Acela express. Theoretical commuting between Philadelphia and Boston, Electrified, Busiest long-distance railroad in North America)

London: London Overground (Basically the GO system we're envisioning but better because level boarding and stuff), Thameslink (Electrified), Crossrail (Under Construction, Electrified), Southeastern Rail, etc.

Here's the full list for London from Wikipedia:
Arriva Rail London, Caledonian Sleeper Chiltern Railways, East Midlands Trains, Eurostar, Gatwick Express, Great Northern, Southern, Thameslink, Grand Central, Great Western Railway, Greater Anglia, Stansted Express, Heathrow Connect, Heathrow Express, Hull Trains, London Northwestern Railway, South Western Railway, Southeastern, TfL Rail, Virgin Trains (West Coast), Virgin Trains East Coast

Granted, most of these are intercity trains, however, many stops are made in London.

 

[hw621]

New York: PATH (4-subway/commuter lines), New Jersey Transit (Electrified Railroad, some trains stop in Newark, second busiest in North America), MTA Long Island Railroad (Busiest Railroad in North America, Electrified), Metro-North Railroad (4th Busiest in North America, most of the system electrified), Amtrak (Northeast Regional and Acela express. Theoretical commuting between Philadelphia and Boston, Electrified, Busiest long-distance railroad in North America)

London: London Overground (Basically the GO system we're envisioning but better because level boarding and stuff), Thameslink (Electrified), Crossrail (Under Construction, Electrified), Southeastern Rail, etc.

Here's the full list for London from Wikipedia:
Arriva Rail London, Caledonian Sleeper Chiltern Railways, East Midlands Trains, Eurostar, Gatwick Express, Great Northern, Southern, Thameslink, Grand Central, Great Western Railway, Greater Anglia, Stansted Express, Heathrow Connect, Heathrow Express, Hull Trains, London Northwestern Railway, South Western Railway, Southeastern, TfL Rail, Virgin Trains (West Coast), Virgin Trains East Coast

Granted, most of these are intercity trains, however, many stops are made in London.

Wow! So my game to close the gap using GO does not play out here huh?

 

[Filip]

145 Express bus driver advised the route is going to be cancelled. I can't find anything in TTC board meetings/minutes, but it may be coming.

Either way, gives me something to tilt at windmills about after having finished (for now) the crusade for the Park Lawn GO stop.

 

[Leo_Chan]

145 Express bus driver advised the route is going to be cancelled. I can't find anything in TTC board meetings/minutes, but it may be coming.

Either way, gives me something to tilt at windmills about after having finished (for now) the crusade for the Park Lawn GO stop.

Yes, all the Downtown Express Routes are going to be removed.

What I don't quite understand is why there aren't more bus routes downtown. With 2 hour transfers coming in August, wouldn't it make sense to introduce more routes downtown to have a finer bus network? Convert all the "Downtown Express Routes" to just "Downtown Routes" that provide coverage to all of downtown (shorten the routes so they don't reach well outside downtown, and add more routes). Of course, this would definitely require more bus garages.

 

[DSCToronto]

Yes, all the Downtown Express Routes are going to be removed.

What I don't quite understand is why there aren't more bus routes downtown. With 2 hour transfers coming in August, wouldn't it make sense to introduce more routes downtown to have a finer bus network? Convert all the "Downtown Express Routes" to just "Downtown Routes" that provide coverage to all of downtown (shorten the routes so they don't reach well outside downtown, and add more routes). Of course, this would definitely require more bus garages.

Take a look at https://stevemunro.ca/2017/06/19/a-slow-trip-to-express-buses/ One big problem with the Express network is that the buses usually run empty in one direction and their per-boarding cost is very high. It is cheaper (and maybe better) to have more 'regular express" routes.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Take a look at https://stevemunro.ca/2017/06/19/a-slow-trip-to-express-buses/ One big problem with the Express network is that the buses usually run empty in one direction and their per-boarding cost is very high. It is cheaper (and maybe better) to have more 'regular express" routes.

I think you're misunderstanding my question. I'm not asking to add more Downtown Express Routes, I'm saying that the removal is good and should be replaced with a more local downtown bus network at the normal fare.

 

[DSCToronto]

I think you're misunderstanding my question. I'm not asking to add more Downtown Express Routes, I'm saying that the removal is good and should be replaced with a more local downtown bus network at the normal fare.

I was not trying to answer your question, I was simply giving you (and others) a reference to an article that discusses express buses and provides lots of statistics.

 

[Filip]

Yes, all the Downtown Express Routes are going to be removed.

What I don't quite understand is why there aren't more bus routes downtown. With 2 hour transfers coming in August, wouldn't it make sense to introduce more routes downtown to have a finer bus network? Convert all the "Downtown Express Routes" to just "Downtown Routes" that provide coverage to all of downtown (shorten the routes so they don't reach well outside downtown, and add more routes). Of course, this would definitely require more bus garages.

I don’t see where you get that. The ttc hasn’t provided public consultations or any communications regarding this.

 

[Steve X]

Yes, all the Downtown Express Routes are going to be removed.

What I don't quite understand is why there aren't more bus routes downtown. With 2 hour transfers coming in August, wouldn't it make sense to introduce more routes downtown to have a finer bus network? Convert all the "Downtown Express Routes" to just "Downtown Routes" that provide coverage to all of downtown (shorten the routes so they don't reach well outside downtown, and add more routes). Of course, this would definitely require more bus garages.

If you did read the report thoroughly, it said that these downtown express buses aren't the best use of resources. It is better to reallocate the buses to other busier routes to actually carry people than to run empty in couterpeak direction during the peak time when resources are constraint. It doesn't offer the best bang for the bucks.

In other words, it's better to just get these riders back in cars and get the poor riders that can't afford a car a ride instead of standing on the curb staring at a stuffed full bus.

 

[Leo_Chan]

If you did read the report thoroughly, it said that these downtown express buses aren't the best use of resources. It is better to reallocate the buses to other busier routes to actually carry people than to run empty in couterpeak direction during the peak time when resources are constraint. It doesn't offer the best bang for the bucks.

In other words, it's better to just get these riders back in cars and get the poor riders that can't afford a car a ride instead of standing on the curb staring at a stuffed full bus.

I fully agree that popular and overcrowded routes should get more buses and be the priority, but does downtown need more buses? Or does downtown already have enough routes (streetcar/bus) to be walkable and adding more is just a waste of buses, even when overcrowding gets better?