[AlvinofDiaspar]

I totally disagree. When you go out to places that still do enforce the fare, like York, you see the same surprising obedience as you used to see anywhere it was enforced. The major change as far as I can see, is the overly cautious safety culture that has overwhelmed many places. Remember when they took down the walk left, stand right signs - so that they wouldn't be endorsing the unsafe act of walking up an escalator?

I agree it's not a diversity issue - if anything the opposite, given that the homeless and addicts I encounter on the system are significantly more white (the same as me) than the general population.

It's a form of broken window theory - no visible sign of rule enforcement signal to would-be-violators that misbehaviour is perfectly acceptable.

Maybe I’m out of touch on this but the few times I’ve taken YRT I noticed the bus was a lot emptier even leaving from a subway station and the passengers were classier (kept to themselves, no music)

Feel like enforcing rules is easier when you have less problematic people? My partner and I always look at the viva stations along highway 7 and try to see if anyone is even there

It's the burbs afterall - though the then inner city issues are starting to percolate to the 905.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Maybe I’m out of touch on this but the few times I’ve taken YRT I noticed the bus was a lot emptier even leaving from a subway station and the passengers were classier (kept to themselves, no music)

Feel like enforcing rules is easier when you have less problematic people? My partner and I always look at the viva stations along highway 7 and try to see if anyone is even there

That's not my experience, when I was taking the YRT 24 Woodbine bus regularly (post-Covid). It's less crowded leaving the (Don Mills) subway, but typically crush loaded by Steeles (in AM peak). In PM peak, it's always leaving people behind if they don't run extra non-scheduled buses, north of Steeles. I've seen more passenger arguments (typically with each other) on that bus than any regular TTC route - with the possible exception to the 75 Sherbourne at Moss Park.

But if you don't pay - the bus isn't moving.

 

[evandyk]

I miss the 75 since moving out west. Never a dull moment, and a great place to teach your kid about life and everything it entails.

 

[81-717]

There are no subway cars left to save except for the T1s

No subway cars left to save, period. I'd rather they save 5707 or one of the H4 work cars instead (there are streetcar work cars saved).

and considering how the feds are dragging their knuckles on providing money for replacement, I don't expect them to be gone any time soon

Looks like the feds are finally coming to their senses, so hopefully the T1s will be gone within the next 10 years.

 

[picard102]

No subway cars left to save, period.

No, pretty sure they have some T1's the can and should save.

 

[81-717]

No, pretty sure they have some T1's the can and should save.

It's time to donate that to the museum. One piece at a time and we'll be able to gather a full H train for 81-717

Only if you can build a full T1 train out of the soda cans they will hopefully become in less than 10 years from now (diet coke cans are painted silver & red just like the T1s, so that's a pretty good starting point ).

 

[turbanplanner]

Sadly the H6's in Turkey were retired

 

[81-717]

Sadly the H6's in Turkey were retired

I know, but they're still in storage, possibly awaiting refurbishment for a possible future subway extension, and sometimes come out on special occasions, so I guess they intend to keep a few around as a historical fleet.

 

[turbanplanner]

It's a form of broken window theory - no visible sign of rule enforcement signal to would-be-violators that misbehaviour is perfectly acceptable.



It's the burbs afterall - though the then inner city issues are starting to percolate to the 905.

AoD

Maybe it's all the 30+ year old international students but I notice Miway busses are pretty full so it's not all the burbs, it's also the only place someone tried to sell me their paper transfer (for $1) after they got off the bus LOL

Also apparently Zuuuuuum is at 130% of pre covid ridership.

 

[smallspy]

Why? There's nothing special about them

Your opinion is noted, and not universally shared with the historical community.

Dan

 

[81-717]

Your opinion is noted, and not universally shared with the historical community.

Dan

I could say the same.

Congratulations for digging up something I wrote 16 years ago, but you've missed the point.

The point is not what my or the historical community's opinion is of a specific piece of rolling stock. The problem is with your contention that a particular piece isn't worth preserving simply because of whatever arbitrary reasons you have decided to come up with. Should everything be saved? In an ideal world, yes. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less worth saving.

Dan

Doesn't necessarily make it more worth saving than a Hawker either. Are you and others here related to the T1s and/or would be equally upset if they don't get saved as I am about the H5s? If the historical community and/or the TTC/HCRR won't save a Hawker for whatever reason they give (not enough space/resources, etc), what business have they saving any other subway car instead? The same reasons for not saving a Hawker should apply to any other subway car as well, otherwise they are as hypocritical as can be. I am entitled to contend that the T1s (and especially TRs) are not worth saving for several reasons, as much as the rest of the historical community is entitled to do the same about the Hawkers.

 

[drum118]

Maybe it's all the 30+ year old international students but I notice Miway busses are pretty full so it's not all the burbs, it's also the only place someone tried to sell me their paper transfer (for $1) after they got off the bus LOL

Also apparently Zuuuuuum is at 130% of pre covid ridership.

What do expect using 2018 budget in 2024 for service hours and drivers. Sept will see a bump in service if drivers are found with the city adding another 4% increase on top of the plan 4% for this year.

The city doesn't have the room to add more buses to the fleet until the 3rd garage is built at $500m for ebuses considering there are non on order at this time and may see some test ones come 2027.

Brampton is out hunting for buses to meet the increase of ridership until the 3rd garage is built for ebuses that are on order or waiting for the new garage to be completed that is currently underway at this time.

Brampton is looking at a 1,000 buses by 2030 and Mississauga has no vision what buses they will need. Mississauga is looking at moving to an articulated fleet to maintain existing headways.

TTC needs more articulated buses as well and are not cheap.

 

[smallspy]

I could say the same.

View attachment 583083

Congratulations for digging up something I wrote 16 years ago, but you've missed the point.

The point is not what my or the historical community's opinion is of a specific piece of rolling stock. The problem is with your contention that a particular piece isn't worth preserving simply because of whatever arbitrary reasons you have decided to come up with. Should everything be saved? In an ideal world, yes. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less worth saving.

Dan

 

[drum118]

July 26
Was on a new New Flyer XDE60 that went into service this month and heard something I haven't heard on other TTC buses so far and it was door chimes. There is a single chime when the doors open an a ding dong when closing. I found out later that the NF XD40's have these chimes also. Talking to a driver, there supposed to 3 chimes when closing.

Don't know if the new Nova Buses being deliver this year have the chimes and haven't been on one.

 

[smallspy]

Doesn't necessarily make it more worth saving than a Hawker either.

I didn't say that.

Are you and others here related to the T1s and/or would be equally upset if they don't get saved as I am about the H5s?

Are you really that daft?

If the historical community and/or the TTC/HCRR won't save a Hawker for whatever reason they give (not enough space/resources, etc), what business have they saving any other subway car instead?

This is where the historical community has a problem. There are finite resources with which they can expend to save and store equipment.

One school of thought is to save everything, and hope that people after can do something with it. This frequently results in groups of items rotting away in fields, sometimes to the point of being beyond saving.

Another school of thought is to be pickier with what is and isn't saved, and focus on what is deemed "important" and put as many resources as possible into it.

And, of course, there is a third option. Having someone who is a champion of that particular item do the hard work of actually saving the item, and then hoping to find someone who can take on the task of storing, maintaining and interpreting it. This may result in the item being displayed in a place or way that is not ideal, but at least it's saved.

The same reasons for not saving a Hawker should apply to any other subway car as well, otherwise they are as hypocritical as can be. I am entitled to contend that the T1s (and especially TRs) are not worth saving for several reasons, as much as the rest of the historical community is entitled to do the same about the Hawkers.

Except that you are contending that the historical community doesn't want to save the Hawkers. That's simply not true, and never has been.

You seem to be conflating the inability to do something with a hatred of it. It's a false equivalency.

Dan