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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Northern Light
Superstar
Averaging 1 ticker per week across our ~110 officers................going to zero would represent too deep a cut, but about 4, effective officers would hold us to current (inadequate) quota.
There needs to be a clear direction to enforce; but we do need to change the system to reduce the liklihood of confrontations, while deterring repeat offenders.
This is where moving to a system with a caution/warning on a first offense, provided you cooperate and supply ID etc is good move.......then a modest ticket in line with a typical parking ticket, ~$40 or such.
On a third and subsequent offense, you get a court date in front of JP with the risk of a bench warrant for your arrest if you no show, and the JP being able to lift that fine considerably and issue an enforcement order to collect it (garnishment)
littlewill1166
Active Member
I would not be surprised if more inspectors increased compliance, but I'm skeptical about increased revenue.
Here are some grey areas:
Some people take the streetcar to the subway, but don't tap on the streetcar to get a couple of extra minutes out of their 2-hour transfer. I wouldn't be surprised if these people switch to walking for part of their trip (depending on how far they are from the subway), or switch to parallel routes. It's not really worth paying a full $3.30 just to go two or three stops. It's also not really fair that someone who gets on at College has to tap to get onto the 506 streetcar, but not someone at Wellesley getting on the 94 bus.
Since OneFare was introduced, I've noticed many people on this forum talking about taking a short trip on GO to extend their transfer window from 2-hours to 5-hours.
evandyk
Senior Member
I think that's very true, but if the non-payment rate is 30%, that must include a large number of people just choosing not to pay because they don't think they'll get caught, and you can probably whittle that group down fairly efficiently.
evandyk
Senior Member
I think this is the best approach. If you really think you're at risk of getting a ticket, even a $40 one, it's a real incentive to swipe your card. If you really don't think you'll get caught, even a potential $450 ticket isn't going to motivate you. Getting your fare checked twice a week will motivate you in a way that knowing there's a theoretical huge penalty doesn't.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
If we made the TTC free, so no collectors or inspectors, how much would the taxpayer have to make up? Of course we'd need to ensure the entire thing didn't become one big encampment.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
This is ironically by far the most expensive option. The ridership recovery is 87% for local and 97% for express routes (pre covid)
Free trips would likely significantly add riders to the most expensive method to run (per passenger) if it was people will for sure run more errands, and potentially you'll have people getting on to go like 5 stops to save a walk. The TTC is already the biggest budget item and I see it going up a decent chunk if it was free.
Remember when the police camped out with the inspectors? Suddenly a bunch of people with arrest warrants were caught! Not all fare evaders are criminals but I'm fairly certain serious criminals are very unlikely to pay. You fix evasion and safety goes up dramatically!
evandyk
Senior Member
Yeah, I'd rather not ride the TTC if it's crawling with cops.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
Good point I feel safer with stabby crack heads
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I want to be with the people who are not avoiding cops.
Undead
Senior Member
I generally feel safe on the TTC. But I would still like to see an officer patrolling every now and then.
Northern Light
Superstar
TTC Passenger Revenue (fares) is ~1B per year.
Savings from shutting down the entire Fare Enforcement program, depends on what you count beyond the direct payroll, but somewhere between 15-25M per year.
Getting rid of 'collectors' meaning station staff is a non-starter, they already changing names/job description to customer service agent, but whatever you call them, people don't want un-staffed stations.
So net, you're still pretty close to 1B.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
T3G
Senior Member
I would be pretty careful with calls to expand police presence on the TTC. Without any kind of nuance or restraint you'll get situations like this in New York, where their useless governor straight up said that she does not care about statistics and all that matters is that people have the illusion of safety.
www.theguardian.com
In other words, exaggerated emotions in the wake of an incident is a sound basis on which to develop public policy. With governance like this, who needs enemies? People on this continent are always willing to trade away their freedoms for the illusion of security. And personally, as a rail fan, I do not particularly relish the idea of having more interfering officials to bother me every time I take a picture of something.
New York is expanding bag checks on the subway. How is this legal?
Officials have deployed thousands of armed police and national guard troops into the system. Critics fear a new era of profiling
www.theguardian.com
In other words, exaggerated emotions in the wake of an incident is a sound basis on which to develop public policy. With governance like this, who needs enemies? People on this continent are always willing to trade away their freedoms for the illusion of security. And personally, as a rail fan, I do not particularly relish the idea of having more interfering officials to bother me every time I take a picture of something.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
TPS had a huge success in apprehending criminals with outstanding arrest warrants around the time the added extra police during the nyc incident.I would be pretty careful with calls to expand police presence on the TTC. Without any kind of nuance or restraint you'll get situations like this in New York, where their useless governor straight up said that she does not care about statistics and all that matters is that people have the illusion of safety.
New York is expanding bag checks on the subway. How is this legal?
Officials have deployed thousands of armed police and national guard troops into the system. Critics fear a new era of profiling
In other words, exaggerated emotions in the wake of an incident is a sound basis on which to develop public policy. With governance like this, who needs enemies? People on this continent are always willing to trade away their freedoms for the illusion of security. And personally, as a rail fan, I do not particularly relish the idea of having more interfering officials to bother me every time I take a picture of something.
and since nfitz doubts every thing I say, here’s proof the streetcar fare evasion is nearly 50% at times