W. K. Lis
Superstar
Most of those buses used for shuttles came from other bus routes. Which meant crowding on those bus routes.
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- Thread starter drum118
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Most of those buses used for shuttles came from other bus routes. Which meant crowding on those bus routes.
nfitz
Superstar
Exactly. If you've got a smaller bus fleet, then the shuttles would impact those routes even more.
Hence my curiosity on why TheTigerMaster thinks that in this circumstance it's good news that in the future the bus fleet will be smaller because of LRT.
johntauren
Active Member
In more bizarro TTC news today...
Woman killed by streetcar at St Clair & Keele
http://www.cp24.com/news/woman-pronounced-dead-after-being-struck-by-st-clair-streetcar-1.2032193
"Reports from the scene suggest that Mayor Rob Ford was in the area at the time of the accident."
Woman killed by streetcar at St Clair & Keele
http://www.cp24.com/news/woman-pronounced-dead-after-being-struck-by-st-clair-streetcar-1.2032193
"Reports from the scene suggest that Mayor Rob Ford was in the area at the time of the accident."
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Electrify
Senior Member
Probably, but it doesn't really make sense for the TTC to do so. There is increased maintenance costs involved, and with the number of buses they'd like to purchase they likely wouldn't save much. I think a smaller system would be more likely to buy from the TTC than the other way around.
Probably the exception might be if the TTC wanted a small purchase to service select routes, like coach buses for Downtown Express lines.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
There is no place to put any extra buses. That's why a new bus garage is needed first. You need a garage to put any new, used, or extra buses, and to clean & maintain them.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
They closed the St. Clair streetcar line west of Lansdowne for hours.
However, if a similar incident happens on the subway, they don't close the subway line down for hours. Maybe an hour at most. What do they do with such incidents on the subway?
What about the LRT's? Would they close a LRT line for hours? Or would they do a "subway" and clear it in less than an hour?
muller877
Senior Member
This is always the excuse. We need to spend tens of millions building a garage for every vehicle. That's not the case.
You do need a facility to clean, gas and repair the busses. But storage does not require a warehouse-style building. Most school bus companies store their busses outside (and in the snow). In fact, a lot just store them in the parking lot of the school (if you get outside of Toronto).
If there is concern about rust for the 8 hours a day they are not in use they can use a cloth structure (St Jacob's farmers market is using one as a temporary indoor market). This is significantly cheaper than a permenent structure since it does not need foundations, electricity or heating.
This means that the workers will have to go out in the elements to get the bus and drive it in for maintenance (the horror).
I know this does not sound fancy but why should a storage area be fancy? (the same should apply to LRT storage facilities)
ehlow
Senior Member
I would think there's more urgency with the subway since it carries way more people per hour, and shuttle buses would have an easier time replacing the streetcar than the subway.
LRT I would assume would lean more towards the subway, especially the ones with higher ridership like Eglinton.
muller877
Senior Member
If the transit vehicle runs in mixed traffic where the streetcar, pedestrian and/or cars may have the right of way at a certain point the police must be very careful to determine who is at fault.
If there is an accident on the subway it is 99% of the time not the fault of the subway operator (the TTC must confirm that the operator was on alert and follow proper braking procedures). The subway can get running very quickly while the police investigate the witnesses to confirm if the person was either a jumper or was pushed.
Understanably the police must follow proper procedures and that will take significantly more time with mixed traffic. On Eglington I would assume it will have the same procedures as the subway in the underground section and the same procedures as a streetcar above ground.
Jonny5
Senior Member
Maintenance facilities have finite capacity. If they are being used 100% now, then driving buses to them is worthless. Is there data on this?
nfitz
Superstar
I can't recall too many similar incidents on the subway where someone who was crossing the tracks was accidently hit leading to death. The only one that comes to mind was in September 2012 where a TTC out-of-service train hit a worker just north of Yorkdale station at 4:45 AM, and service was suspended from Downsview to Lawrence West until 1 pm. That's about 8 hours.
This would suggest that when subway trains accidentally hit someone (as opposed to suicide attempts) the closure is actually longer than the streetcar, not less.
smallspy
Senior Member
What makes you think that a TTC bus storage facility is fancy? It's a warehouse designed to keep the buses above a certain minimum temperature, and to keep them out of the elements. This is to ensure that they start up in the morning, and are able to be put into service within minutes of startup, rather than having to wait for the bus to warm up and the air to build up.
For the record, the TTC also has outdoor bus storage at most of its garages, and one of the most recent ones was built specifically with no indoor storage, but rather an off-the-shelf system that is designed to keep the vehicles ready to start after sitting outside overnight. (Of course, that the system is not particularly well adapted to the rigours placed on it isn't the TTC's fault, although methinks a bit more research into it would have been prudent ahead of time.)
This kind of thing doesn't apply to streetcars, LRTs or subways, as they are always "on" by virtue of being plugged into a power source that is always running - and the newer vehicles have a "sleep" mode for power savings when stored.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
AlbertHWagstaff
Senior Member
In decades past, during extreme winter weather buses parked outside for the night were all left running to make sure they were ready to go immediately. Not the best solution for air quality but it made sure that there were enough buses for the morning service.
smallspy
Senior Member
Not just air quality - it takes a lot of fuel to keep a bus at idle. That's a lot of money being wasted.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.