[car4041]

Many people are attached to the logo, some like the TTC font, and nobody likes the inconsistency or the lack of clarity in the signage. A design that respects that has a much greater chance of success.

Very well said.

stylizing it to place a line through it with a station name as done on maps

And still in a couple of locations around the city too: Long Branch loop, Davisville carhouse, Hillcrest facility. It apparently used to be more widely used in this way (e.g. Lipton Loop). I think it's a very effective use of the logo that ought to still be considered today.

 

[adma]

I think that spending hundreds of millions of dollars on ferris wheels and slightly modifying the TTC logo are two completely different things. I honestly don't think people would care that much.

Well, "people didn't care that much" when the original Yonge line stations were de-Vitrolited and reclad in the 80s and 90s--doesn't mean it's not regretted today...

 

[k10ery]

I agree. Many people are attached to the logo, some like the TTC font, and nobody likes the inconsistency or the lack of clarity in the signage. A design that respects that has a much greater chance of success. The whole branding TTCchris's post refers to could occur minus the logo change and not get much pushback. The logo proposed is almost the same shape as the existing one so filling in the existing TTC lettering to replace it with an exclamation point for alerts can still be accomplished. Going beyond that the current logo lends itself to colouring it and placing a number or letter in it to identify a route, putting a symbol in it to identify a station, or stylizing it to place a line through it with a station name as done on maps. There is no lack of flexibility with the current logo, nor any issues to be solved in changing it. .

Could somebody post a jpeg of that revised logo? I can't download the file.

I think the logo matters. If they didn't, would private companies spend millions redesigning theirs? The TTC logo is old, messy, non-user friendly, and it relies on out-of-date ideas. Hmm, maybe that's an apt symbol for the TTC itself then.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Could somebody post a jpeg of that revised logo? I can't download the file.

I think the logo matters. If they didn't, would private companies spend millions redesigning theirs? The TTC logo is old, messy, non-user friendly, and it relies on out-of-date ideas. Hmm, maybe that's an apt symbol for the TTC itself then.

Here are the logos that bgfrancey designed. I got them from his PDF that he posted: http://bfdesign.ca/samples/TTC_Brand_Concept.pdf

And here is bgfrancey's original post:

Hey all,

Just read through the discussion. An interesting issue to deal with indeed. I've been interested in the whole TTC branding for a while. I had put together a sample redesign of some of the elements that the TTC needs help in for my Masters degree portfolio. You can view it here: http://bfdesign.ca/samples/TTC_Brand_Concept.pdf … these aren't final designs and having completed it last year, there are changes that I would make to it now. I agree that the signage needs to be fixed asap, and I think it should be one of their top priorities. It's one of the most visible parts of the entire network and for Torontonians and tourists alike it's a disaster to figure out the system. It also shows confidence and pride in a system which goes a long way to improving customer service.

Living in London now I appreciate good signage on a whole new level. The Underground is a complex maze of tunnels and tubes and it's actually quite easy to make your way around it thanks to the signage.

Anyway, I'd write more, but I'm tired and I have to get back to my studies.

Keep pushing the TTC for this - it needs to happen! Right after we get those LRT's confirmed … again.

 

[car4041]

I'm afraid I'm not a huge fan of bgfrancey's logo -- with the simplification and the thickening of the horizontal bar, it actually reminds me of the Chevrolet logo (even though some of the angles are different).

But anyway, I like the current TTC logo. It's distinctive and it has history.

 

[jozl]

TigerMaster, What an excellent post! I am a graphic designer and also teach design at a local college. I've grumbled about the TTC logo and signage for decades. I've done several redesigns of the logo just to help exorcise the current logo from my brain. The jumbled TTC letterforms in the current logo would get an "F" if it were submitted in my class. I was however encouraged today when I heard an interview with the new TTC general manager (forgot his name). One of the things he mentioned were the sloppy hand written signs stuck all around the system. He said he won't tolerate that sort of sloppiness and disregard for continuity. He seems to understand the importance of good, consistent design. I think it's very important as it brands the city as well as the transit system. I might even send the new GM some of my redesigned logos.

 

[car4041]

The jumbled TTC letterforms in the current logo would get an "F" if it were submitted in my class.

Historical context (which you may be aware of): these "jumbled letterforms" were once a common component of railway logo design. Examples:

- Pennsylvania Railroad
- Lake State Railway
- New Zealand Railway
- Swedish State Railways
- Pittsburgh & Lake Erie Railroad
- Hocking Valley Railway
- And close to home, the Hamilton Street Railway, which, like the TTC, still uses its vintage logo

Maybe you'd give all of these an F too, and that's fine; there's certainly nothing contemporary about them. But I think the historical context should be noted before simply dismissing the logo as bad design -- it's a product of its era, and I for one like that we've kept the historical connection, even if it's not something that any designer would come up with nowadays.

 

[adma]

I think the logo matters. If they didn't, would private companies spend millions redesigning theirs? The TTC logo is old, messy, non-user friendly, and it relies on out-of-date ideas. Hmm, maybe that's an apt symbol for the TTC itself then.

RCA tried that in the 1960s

Yet you just couldn't keep the visceral attachment to this down

 

[EnviroTO]

I think the logo matters. If they didn't, would private companies spend millions redesigning theirs?

To increase sales of branded merchandise, and to repair a problem where the brand is holding the company back (e.g. a logo that is not distinct or recognizable, a brand name which reduces sales that could have occurred with a different brand name attached). The TTC has high ridership... their issue isn't that there aren't enough people coming through the door, their problem is that they can't get their service up to standard.

The TTC logo is old, messy, non-user friendly, and it relies on out-of-date ideas.

How can an easily recognizable logo be non-user friendly.

Looking at the logos that exist for other systems at least ours is unique. The bulk of the logos out there are a circle or square with a letter in it.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Historical context (which you may be aware of): these "jumbled letterforms" were once a common component of railway logo design. Examples:

- Pennsylvania Railroad
- Lake State Railway
- New Zealand Railway
- Swedish State Railways
- Pittsburgh & Lake Erie Railroad
- Hocking Valley Railway
- And close to home, the Hamilton Street Railway, which, like the TTC, still uses its vintage logo

Maybe you'd give all of these an F too, and that's fine; there's certainly nothing contemporary about them. But I think the historical context should be noted before simply dismissing the logo as bad design -- it's a product of its era, and I for one like that we've kept the historical connection, even if it's not something that any designer would come up with nowadays.

The TTC isn't a museum. The one and only reason it exists is to provide public transit. Since the TTC isn't a brand like Coca-Cola or Apple it has zero reason to stick with the current logo.

 

[car4041]

The TTC isn't a museum. The one and only reason it exists is to provide public transit. Since the TTC isn't a brand like Coca-Cola or Apple it has zero reason to stick with the current logo.

And it also has zero reason to change the current logo...

 

[TheTigerMaster]

To increase sales of branded merchandise, and to repair a problem where the brand is holding the company back (e.g. a logo that is not distinct or recognizable, a brand name which reduces sales that could have occurred with a different brand name attached). The TTC has high ridership... their issue isn't that there aren't enough people coming through the door, their problem is that they can't get their service up to standard.



How can an easily recognizable logo be non-user friendly.

View attachment 8628View attachment 8629View attachment 8630

Looking at the logos that exist for other systems at least ours is unique. The bulk of the logos out there are a circle or square with a letter in it.

I think that the TTC should at least move to a more modern logo. The current logo is very 19th century and it reflects badly on a modern city like Toronto. We don't need to move to a completely new logo, but we should at least modify it to something a little more modern like bgfrancey did.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It amazes me how much pushback there is from the simple idea of slightly changing the logo. Looks like we have a classic case of nostalgia on our hands.

 

[a0th]

Here are the signs with a redesigned compass as requested by some people on the forum. I think that its much better then the previous version but it could still use some work. What do you think?

Turn right to access elevator to centre platform on the A line (YUS)

Turn left to westbound platform on the B line (Bloor-Danforth)

don't quit your day job dude

 

[a0th]

And it also has zero reason to change the current logo...

the reasons are: the letters are illegible in reduced sizes, it's ugly, it's dated and reflects poorly on the system. it needs to be cleaned up much like most of the TTC and it's approach to design