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But the count at Bessarion is so low (2000/d), any fluctuation might sound (in fact, likely to be) large on a YTY percentage basis but meaningless at a global scale.

AoD
 
TheTigerMaster said:
The sad thing about the Sheppard Subway is that ridership will very likely take another hit when the Eglinton Crosstown opens. And I can see it decreasing even further once the Finch West LRT is extended to Yonge, since riders in the area will likely take the Finch Express Bus to the FWLRT rather than taking Sheppard to Yonge, Yonge to Finch and then transferring to FWLRT. And heavens forbid if the proposed Don Mills LRT or subway were built and connected to DRL, the effect on Sheppard Subway ridership would be nothing short of cataclysmic.
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The Eglinton LRT is far enough away from Sheppard that I doubt that the effect of it on Sheppard would be very much.

The Finch LRT would not go east of Yonge, so it should have no noticeable effect on Sheppard.

A Don Mills subway up to Sheppard definitely could well reduce ridership on the Sheppard subway west of Don Mills. However it ought to increase the ridership east of Don Mills.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
The sad thing about the Sheppard Subway is that ridership will very likely take another hit when the Eglinton Crosstown opens. And I can see it decreasing even further once the Finch West LRT is extended to Yonge, since riders in the area will likely take the Finch Express Bus to the FWLRT rather than taking Sheppard to Yonge, Yonge to Finch and then transferring to FWLRT. And heavens forbid if the proposed Don Mills LRT or subway were built and connected to DRL, the effect on Sheppard Subway ridership would be nothing short of cataclysmic.
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You're wrong TM. Eglinton should have a minor impact on Sheppard. For example, people who live along Lawrence will likely go south to Eglinton rather than to north to Sheppard to get to Yonge. Finch wont have an impact. Don Mills will.
 
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Wow. Take a look at how horrible light rail is. Look at how it clogs up traffic and stops at every light. And look at how horribly slow it is. Ford is right. What we need is subways, subways, subways. If it's good enough for high density downtown Houston, it's obviously not good enough for low density suburban Sheppard :rolleyes:

[video=youtube;NEwXUY-ojCg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEwXUY-ojCg[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7idRzYlVQEk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGXD2SsQuSo

Sorry, I was feeling a little cynical tonight
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
You're wrong TM. Eglinton should have a minor impact on Sheppard. For example, people who live along Lawrence will likely go south to Eglinton rather than to north to Sheppard to get to Yonge. Finch wont have an impact. Don Mills will.
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Very minor perhaps for some between Lawrence and Sheppard. I'd think most on Lawrence now don't head to Sheppard, but instead take the Lawrence bus to Eglinton station.
 
Part of the reason Sheppard's ridership is so low is because it was never completed. So of course people from parallel bus routes won't transfer to get there to have to transfer again. If Sheppard had been completed (say, from Downsview to Scarborough Centre) ridership would be much better.
 
Would just extending the "Sheppard line" westward towards the "University line" alone boost ridership?
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente:

East on Don Mills, the Sheppard Subway is projected to carry only 4,000 people per hour per direction (pphpd).

4,000 pphpd can easily be accommodated by bus rapid transit. The light rapid transit Sheppard East is getting will provide far more capacity than the route will need anytime in the foreseeable future. A subway is overkill.


Always remember this: A subway is designed to carry 44,000+ pphpd. At most, the amount of people using Sheppard will be 4,000 pphpd. That's 11x more capacity than the route needs and a huge waste of our money.

Imagine how much of a subsidy would be needed to operate that line. The current Sheppard Subway requires an $8 subsidy from taxpayers per trip. Thats 16 times higher than the avergae subsidy for the rest of the subway. East of Don Mills, where ridership is only 4,000 pphpd, that subsidy could skyrocket to $15+ per trip.
 
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Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Part of the reason Sheppard's ridership is so low is because it was never completed. So of course people from parallel bus routes won't transfer to get there to have to transfer again. If Sheppard had been completed (say, from Downsview to Scarborough Centre) ridership would be much better.
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Much better? What was the peak ridership increase ... from about 5,000 per hour to 7,000 per hour? Higher perhaps ... not sure better. In terms of passengers/km, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually got worse if it went much east of Victoria Park and west of Yonge!
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Part of the reason Sheppard's ridership is so low is because it was never completed. So of course people from parallel bus routes won't transfer to get there to have to transfer again. If Sheppard had been completed (say, from Downsview to Scarborough Centre) ridership would be much better.
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The SRT and the western half of the Bloor Danforth is much higher in ridership and both those are incomplete. People Bayview village won't get out of their cars,.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Traditional Toronto subway capacity is 26,000.
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I'm not sure by what you mean by "traditional" subway capacity. We know that the Yonge Subway downtown moves 34,000 pphpd today.Metrolinx forcasts that this will be 44,000 pphpd at points in the coming years.

Regardless, I think we all agree that spending billions in capital expenditures in addition to massive operational subsidies to move only 4,000 pphpd, on a system designed to carry at the very 7x to 11x as many passengers would be very irresponsible.
 
I mean as though the Bloor line has a capacity of 26,000, and if the Sheppard line was fully built out it would have a capacity of 26,000. Current capacity on the yonge line is 28,000 with the new TRs. once ATC is in place it should jump to around 38,000. The Yonge extension would make ridership jumpt to 39,000, so the DRL is needed to relieve it before hand or you will be sticking the line over capacity again.
 
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