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Sheppard is certainly not going to be completed but I think it will be extended probably from the Spadina Line to possibly Consumers.
He already has $330 million from the feds and effectively $650 million from the province as he will make sure that come hell or high water the line ends with 4650 million to spare. McGuinty is providing $8.2 billion and if Eglinton is built and there is a lot left over I don't think he would refuse to give over any unused funds. If, for example, the Eglinton line comes in at only $7.2 billion it may not be in the contract but I think he would give the city the entire $1 billion as opposed to just the $650 million.
Where this could work in Toronto's favour is if he manages to get the feds to pony up. If the feds give him a cool billion for the Eglinton so the Eglinton only ends up costing Queen's Park $7.2 billion then I don't think McGuinty would refuse the unneeded funds.
My basic point is that I think the $8.2 billion is a guarantee regardless of the eventual cost of the Eglinton which could certainly work in everyone's favour. If the feds kick in a billion then effectively that just a billion more available for Sheppard. Also it could entice Ford {or any mayor after him} to elevate the line {I think the province will demand a total grade separation to avoid another TransitCity headache} from roughly Don Mills to Kennedy as it is purely industrial/commercial and always will be. Again the savings from doing that could go straigt to Sheppard.
I'm not saying it's the best use of funds but I can definately see a good chunk of Sheppard being completed by 2020.
 
ssiguy2 said:
I'm not saying it's the best use of funds but I can definately see a good chunk of Sheppard being completed by 2020.
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Not with the current funding. The $650 million promised from the province is if Eglinton doesn't need it. It then is from the tail-end of the Eglinton funding, almost a decade from now. By then the offer for the $330 million from the feds will long since expired ... and so will have Ford's mayoralty (does anyone envision a 3rd term?)
 
nfitz said:
does anyone envision a 3rd term?
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Anything is possible if his suburban support holds up, but it's interesting that you're already conceding a 2nd term.

ssiguy2 said:
Sheppard is certainly not going to be completed but I think it will be extended probably from the Spadina Line to possibly Consumers.
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It'll go to at least Vic Park if there is an eastward extension.

As for what McGuinty might do with transit funding, let's wait to see if he's still Premier in two months.
 
GenerationW said:
Anything is possible if his suburban support holds up, but it's interesting that you're already conceding a 2nd term.
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Oh, I think that unlikely ... but it would be into his third term before the money becomes available; so I didn't think that was worth the debate.
 
nfitz said:
Not with the current funding. The $650 million promised from the province is if Eglinton doesn't need it. It then is from the tail-end of the Eglinton funding, almost a decade from now. By then the offer for the $330 million from the feds will long since expired ... and so will have Ford's mayoralty (does anyone envision a 3rd term?)
Click to expand...

From listening to the Premier after yeterday's meeting, I did not get the impression he was going to make the city wait for an answer until Eglinton was built....I may have been mistaken but he gave me the impression he won't commit to the transfer of the $650 million to Sheppard until the final budgets/costing is in for Eglinton and if it appears to be available he sounded like he would make it available.

The Feds money is interesting. It was a commitment to fund the Sheppard part of TC.....since the new Sheppard plan is not part of TC it is not, technically, the same plan so the commitment goes away....unless someone can convince them otherwise.

My best guess:

1) Premier tells the people invovled to hurry a bit on the budgeting/costing of Eglinton
2) Somewhere after the election campaign officially starts, but not too soon - probably the midpoint of the campaign. He makes a major transit announcement that "through careful planning and an efficient process we have found $650 million to assist the City of Toronto build their desired subway on Sheppard. If we are re-elected, we will fund $650 million towards Sheppard as well as our commitment to fund all of Eglinton.
3) As part of that announcement, he says "We agree with the Mayor that all levels of government should be involved in improving transit in our most important city. This new funding plan is contingent on the Federal Government confirming that, at least, their previous commitment of $330 million for Sheppard transit is available."

So, he gets to look like the City's white knight/hero, he also gets Tory's in Ottawa to support/endorse a Liberal announcement and, if they refuse, he gets to paint the Tory's (all Tory's) as the people not supporting the city's desire for improved transit/subways.....seems to me that he (the premier) can't lose here!
 
Electrify said:
Tweeted Ford earlier:

"@TOMayorFord Build the Sheppard extension above ground, saving billions. You're welcome."

Horrifying thought: What if he takes my advice and builds the line elevated, and it gets him a second term? :S
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It would show that he is capable of compromise. It also means that I would now have a subway at my doorstep!
 
TOareaFan said:
1) Premier tells the people invovled to hurry a bit on the budgeting/costing of Eglinton
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You can't cost it until you know what your building. And you don't know what your building until you complete the environmental assessment. This is months to years away still.

TOareaFan said:
2) Somewhere after the election campaign officially starts, but not too soon - probably the midpoint of the campaign. He makes a major transit announcement that "through careful planning and an efficient process we have found $650 million to assist the City of Toronto build their desired subway on Sheppard. If we are re-elected, we will fund $650 million towards Sheppard as well as our commitment to fund all of Eglinton.
Click to expand...
That's about 4 weeks away. Election day is 49 days away. How is he suddenly going to have the information to make this decision in about 20 working days - in August when everyone is on vacation.
 
to be honest, I just wish they extended sheppard WEST to downsview. This is at least one section, the majority of people can agree to. And it would do wonders for the connectivity and redundancy of the subway system.
 
I kind of feel like the westward subway station is something people want because it'd make the subway map look more symmetrical. For it to actually have a network impact, you'd have to encourage southbound riders on the Yonge line to switch trains at Yonge-Sheppard, travel west to Downsview, then change trains again and proceed southbound on University. I don't see a lot of people doing that, even if it would be to their benefit.

You'd also get some southbound riders from the Sheppard line transferring at Downsview instead of Sheppard-Yonge, but are there enough such riders to really make a difference? I'd wager that congestion on Yonge comes from the north, not from Sheppard.
 
nfitz said:
You can't cost it until you know what your building. And you don't know what your building until you complete the environmental assessment. This is months to years away still.

That's about 4 weeks away. Election day is 49 days away. How is he suddenly going to have the information to make this decision in about 20 working days - in August when everyone is on vacation.
Click to expand...

When you control the purse strings you can do a lot....he tells them to come up with a number...tells them not to worry if they are a few mill off...no one will know anyway...and he comes out and says "in our best estimate, the cost of the Eglinton line will be such that it allows us to commit $650 million to Sheppard"....the only industry that matters over the next 49 days is politics....and I am sure that is why Rob Ford asked for the meeting with the Prem yesterday.....start the photo op/media scrum season off with his pet project front and centre.
 
As far as McGuinty dropping a funding promise for Sheppard during the campaign, I'm not saying he won't do it -- in the grand scheme, a $650 million capital commitment over the next decade is small potatoes -- but would it really benefit him in the race against Hudak?

I'm not convinced there are a great many people in Toronto who are actually demanding a Sheppard Subway extension.
 
TOareaFan said:
When you control the purse strings you can do a lot....he tells them to come up with a number...tells them not to worry if they are a few mill off...no one will know anyway...and he comes out and says "in our best estimate, the cost of the Eglinton line will be such that it allows us to commit $650 million to Sheppard"....the only industry that matters over the next 49 days is politics....and I am sure that is why Rob Ford asked for the meeting with the Prem yesterday.....start the photo op/media scrum season off with his pet project front and centre.
Click to expand...
Why would the Premier do this? By moving the money forward from the 2015-2020 budget, and committing it before 2014 as requested by the feds, it would screw up their cashflow, and the money would have to be removed from other projects in the 2010-2015 budget.

What the Premier could do, is simply make it clear to the feds, that it's part of a bigger project. The total project is $12-billion for Eglinton/Sheppard, and province is providing $8+ billion, with lots of money being spent now. So federal share is $4-billion ... but we'll happily have Toronto accept the $333 million, because we know you are cheap ba****. I'm sure there's some deal that can be made, that would protect the $333 million. Ford already signed that deal recently where the Province is paying $8 billion of $12 billion.
 
nfitz said:
Why would the Premier do this? By moving the money forward from the 2015-2020 budget, and committing it before 2014 as requested by the feds, it would screw up their cashflow, and the money would have to be removed from other projects in the 2010-2015 budget.

What the Premier could do, is simply make it clear to the feds, that it's part of a bigger project. The total project is $12-billion for Eglinton/Sheppard, and province is providing $8+ billion, with lots of money being spent now. So federal share is $4-billion ... but we'll happily have Toronto accept the $333 million, because we know you are cheap ba****. I'm sure there's some deal that can be made, that would protect the $333 million. Ford already signed that deal recently where the Province is paying $8 billion of $12 billion.
Click to expand...

And part of that deal was the provision that if it were available $650 million would transfer to Sheppard.....so the Prem would just have to commit to that earlier than planned.
 
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