[Northern Light]

Yes, some customers cannot walk long distances so stop spacing is important. You note that streetcars have to slow down at switches, I thought this was an example of TTC being ultra cautious and that IF the switch is properly maintained the streetcar does NOT need to slow down. Because so many switches are in poor condition it was, apparently, easier to just tell operators to slow at all of them!

I'm not an advocate for a wholesale move to 500M stop spacing, but spacing under 300M on a bus route, or under 400m on a route with 30m vehicle lengths is pretty hard to take, its a very inefficient service design.

My mother, in her last years, beset by COPD and the after effects of a stroke, could no longer navigate conventional transit. She was approved for Wheel Trans, but for most appointments I had to drive her, as she also had no short-term memory (couldn't tell you what she had for lunch) ....and therefore needed to be accompanied.

I'm thus very sympathetic to those facing challenges. Yet, you can't order the system to deal with those individuals w/the greatest challenges, they need a specialty system, which is something we offer.

Many, today, also use scooters/electric wheelchairs to address these needs.

We certainly want a reasonable measure of convenience, but not a service that is more stopped than go-ing.

Each stop can be examined on its merits. But I don't think those I've suggested result in unreasonable distances between stops. There are other considerations, as I noted, to do with stop overcrowding and timing impacts at intersections that would face increased pedestrian flows etc.

 

[smallspy]

Yes, some customers cannot walk long distances so stop spacing is important. You note that streetcars have to slow down at switches, I thought this was an example of TTC being ultra cautious and that IF the switch is properly maintained the streetcar does NOT need to slow down. Because so many switches are in poor condition it was, apparently, easier to just tell operators to slow at all of them!

As I've written many, many times before.....

The switches are not the problem. They have never been a problem.

The problem is with the N/A system used to actuate them. It is old and in need of replacement. The ongoing program to "refurbish" the equipment is not nearly enough to fix the inherent issues with the system.

Dan

 

[reaperexpress]

As I've written many, many times before.....

The switches are not the problem. They have never been a problem.

The problem is with the N/A system used to actuate them. It is old and in need of replacement. The ongoing program to "refurbish" the equipment is not nearly enough to fix the inherent issues with the system.

Dan

It has been a decade since the TTC published their scathing report of their own switch system (report is now deleted from the website and I can't find any archive), in which they recommended changing to standard switch equipment and a new detection/display standard. And in that time there has been no indication of any progress.

 

[dob467]

Why is this conversation focused on eliminating stops for transit users, instead of the multiple delays the streetcar encounters from cars? I find it strange that we're dissecting how many metres people using transit should walk during the course of their trips instead of the complete unnecessary left turn that we've somehow let become the standard norm for drivers.

 

[ownthesky]

Why is this conversation focused on eliminating stops for transit users, instead of the multiple delays the streetcar encounters from cars? I find it strange that we're dissecting how many metres people using transit should walk during the course of their trips instead of the complete unnecessary left turn that we've somehow let become the standard norm for drivers.

A search for "left turn" yields 4 pages of comment on a 162 page thread, seems like a pretty popular sentiment.

It's both - A streetcar should eliminate as many left turns as feasible AND have enough room to allow an electric motor. If we aren't going to bother with running vehicles at speed, perhaps TTC should go back to horse-drawn carriages to pursue their Net Zero goals! Deciding on and enforcing a design standard for stop spacing helps reduce the politicking so that the city doesn't need to give every unemployed professional councilor-emailer their own stop.

 

[max]

I have a vague memory of the debut of the Flexity cars on the 510 and the first car out of the tunnel having to wait for the light at Sussex. Making any transit vehicle wait at such a minor intersection is ridiculous, especially when the long approach should provide a lot of time to detect the vehicle from the tunnel and could then either hold the southbound green, or initiate the pedestrian countdown and end the crossing light cycle. Similar strategies should also be deployed at every minor cross street or even every crossing without TSP for the East-West transit.

The damn route is in its own ROW and is somehow slower than the 511 Bathurst operating in mixed traffic. That ROW provides opportunities to do things differently and speed up the line, but from this sidewalk supervisor's perspective, they are just squandering it.

 

[reaperexpress]

Why is this conversation focused on eliminating stops for transit users, instead of the multiple delays the streetcar encounters from cars? I find it strange that we're dissecting how many metres people using transit should walk during the course of their trips instead of the complete unnecessary left turn that we've somehow let become the standard norm for drivers.

Eliminating delays due to left turns is literally the core topic of this discussion. We were discussing a motion by Councillor Saxe to direct staff to study prioritizing streetcars over left turns, which has now been adopted. Transportation Services says they'll report back early in the new year.

 

[Dan416]

I always liked the Spadina streetcar having its own ROW, but found it crazy how slow it is. You really would think having its own ROW would speed things up. So many of the stops are really minor. They should do all of those things to speed it up (remove stops, insert phases for streetcars before left turns or just eliminate left turns altogether, fix the switches, etc).

 

[Northern Light]

So .............. in the course of my internet travels.................. I came across something of interest in light of our recent subject here............(Spadina)

It actually dates from January '24, but I don't recall seeing it before............(perhaps I missed it or forgot it, if so my apologies) but a fellow named Paul Gallagher posted detailed modelling on different ways to speed up Spadina.

I searched his last name on UT and came up empty, so I'm assuming we missed this......

I'm particularly keen to hear @reaperexpress thoughts:

TTC Optimized: Designing an Improved 510-Spadina Streetcar Service

In Toronto’s vibrant landscape, the 510 Spadina Streetcar is more than just a transport option; it connects diverse communities and…

medium.com

He modeled for reduced stops, greater transit priority and higher maximum speeds among other things.

I'm not going to pull forward all his detailed modelling, follow the link for that.......... but I will pull forward his final recommendations:

 

[DSCToronto]

So .............. in the course of my internet travels.................. I came across something of interest in light of our recent subject here............(Spadina)

It actually dates from January '24, but I don't recall seeing it before............(perhaps I missed it or forgot it, if so my apologies) but a fellow named Paul Gallagher posted detailed modelling on different ways to speed up Spadina.

I searched his last name on UT and came up empty, so I'm assuming we missed this......

I'm particularly keen to hear @reaperexpress thoughts:

TTC Optimized: Designing an Improved 510-Spadina Streetcar Service

In Toronto’s vibrant landscape, the 510 Spadina Streetcar is more than just a transport option; it connects diverse communities and…

medium.com

He modeled for reduced stops, greater transit priority and higher maximum speeds among other things.

I'm not going to pull forward all his detailed modelling, follow the link for that.......... but I will pull forward his final recommendations:

View attachment 692915

View attachment 692916

Interesting article but does the author have traffic planning experience? I am not implying that he is another armchair planner but ….According to his bio, he specializes in writing about NHL draft and appears to have 3 followers

 

[Northern Light]

Interesting article but does the author have traffic planning experience?

Don't know, but his bio also says:

" I am a data scientist and an engineer "

 

[Northern Light]

I was waiting to post this next bit til @reaperexpress got caught up...... but he obviously thought he should go to work on Monday and then have a personal life after..........what an odd duck... LOL

As I insist on bringing UT info in close to real time, when feasible............

Steve Munro brought out in a recent post that the TTC is musing about cutting stops on the St. Clair LRT ............Yay!

Steve, I think is less enthused, but I like the choices, maybe in part because they come fairly close to mirroring my suggestions............with one notable omission.

I''m a very bit advocate for merging the Bathurst and Vaughan stops into one Bathurst-Vaughan stop. I find the stop absurdly close.

Link to Steve's piece:

TTC Bunching and Gapping Pilot

The TTC has a pilot program underway on several routes with increased supervision in an attempt to improve service quality by addressing service gaps and bunching. These are complementary effects i…

stevemunro.ca

 

[reaperexpress]

So .............. in the course of my internet travels.................. I came across something of interest in light of our recent subject here............(Spadina)

It actually dates from January '24, but I don't recall seeing it before............(perhaps I missed it or forgot it, if so my apologies) but a fellow named Paul Gallagher posted detailed modelling on different ways to speed up Spadina.

I searched his last name on UT and came up empty, so I'm assuming we missed this......

I'm particularly keen to hear @reaperexpress thoughts:

TTC Optimized: Designing an Improved 510-Spadina Streetcar Service

In Toronto’s vibrant landscape, the 510 Spadina Streetcar is more than just a transport option; it connects diverse communities and…

medium.com

He modeled for reduced stops, greater transit priority and higher maximum speeds among other things.

I'm not going to pull forward all his detailed modelling, follow the link for that.......... but I will pull forward his final recommendations:

View attachment 692915

View attachment 692916

It appears that they created a good model of the service. But most of their assumptions were incorrect, which makes the model results and conclusions invalid.

- The model incorrectly assumes a maximum speed of 25 km/h. The actual speed limit is 40, not 25. The 25 limit only applies within signalized intersections. There's also a 10 km/h limit over special trackwork, and a requirement to stop-and-proceed at facing switches, which are not mentioned in the description of the model, though the conclusions do mention switches, so I'm not sure if or how they've been modelled.
- The model incorrectly assumes a fixed dwell time of 20 seconds. The actual dwell time is actually correlated to the headway, so long dwells slow down the line much more than if the two variables were independent.
- The model incorrectly assumes that at each signal 50% of streetcars get a green light and the remainder get a random delay of 1 to 60 seconds. Normally delay in a coordinated signal system would not be random but on Spadina the dwell times on Spadina are so variable that I actually think it is reasonable to assume random variation in signal delay. The bigger issue is that the delay varies dramatically between intersection, but that is not reflected in the model. I don't have my spreadsheet of signal timings on me, but off the top of my head at College only about 16% of streetcars get a green with the remainder getting 1 to 75 s delay. Meanwhile at Sussex it's something like 56% green with 1 to 40 s delay for other streetcars. And that's all assuming there's no TSP, but there is TSP at Sussex but not at College.

As is standard practice in traffic models, they fudged the numbers to get the baseline travel time to match reality. They accidentally included less signal delay and switch delay than there actually is, and compensated for that by setting the speed limit lower than it actually is.

I'd love to see what the model would produce with the input parameters corrected. It seems well designed, so it could potentially be a useful tool with relatively minor adjustments.

 

[nfitz]

I was waiting to post this next bit til @reaperexpress got caught up...... but he obviously thought he should go to work on Monday and then have a personal life after..........what an odd duck... LOL

As I insist on bringing UT info in close to real time, when feasible............

Steve Munro brought out in a recent post that the TTC is musing about cutting stops on the St. Clair LRT ............Yay!

Steve, I think is less enthused, but I like the choices, maybe in part because they come fairly close to mirroring my suggestions............with one notable omission.

I''m a very bit advocate for merging the Bathurst and Vaughan stops into one Bathurst-Vaughan stop. I find the stop absurdly close.

View attachment 693138


View attachment 693139

View attachment 693140

Odd they keep the two closest together stops - eastbound Bathurst and Vaughan.

 

[Amare]

The fact that the TTC is even considering this is pretty astonishing. I dont know what sparked this but whatever it is, it's refreshing to see.

Now let's see if all or even part of this gets implemented, and can get through residents in the area who will no doubt bring pitch forks to protest this.