[robmausser]

The cowling will be ineffective for the 175 kph, 110 mph limit VIA can operate at now, and will get damaged and interfere with end coupling and stationary hotel power connection when stabled.

Save the vanity nose jobs for fancy occasions, leave the coupler exposed out front for real world bumps and needs.

Public perception is extremely important with publically funded projects.

It might not matter to you, but a nose cone vs no nose cone can make or break the difference between people thinking they are getting modern high speed trains vs antiquated equipment.

 

[steveintoronto]

Public perception is extremely important with publically funded projects.

It might not matter to you, but a nose cone vs no nose cone can make or break the difference between people thinking they are getting modern high speed trains vs antiquated equipment.

lol...the average person couldn't even tell you what colours VIA use, let alone the state of their loco fleet, or where the "Charger" plugs into their iMemyself device.

How many European and US operators are using the nose cowling? (There's a massive European family this design is based on) How has that affected their customer sales? Hint: It's time, comfort and cost that count for most travellers. Brightline only did it as a result of glossy, high-priced PR for the vacant masses.

The demand is already there for the VIA trains.

Do you demand a P42 instead of an F40 on your train purely due to the shape of the nose? Cyrano de Bergerac would be offended.

Btw: You do realize that safety comes before looks? And if anyone should be more concerned than most about plowing into pedestrians, it's Brightline.

There is *far more* close track view on the stock nose. It was designed precisely with that in mind, which is why the cockpit shape recurs on deep sea diving vehicles, helicopters, VTOL aircraft and trains. Note the 'downward view clearance' to see what's happening with the coupler, and to make sure the normally blind spot isn't. Maximum vision. What a concept. Speaking of "looks"...

Got to be good looking
'Cause he's so hard to see

: - John Lennon, Paul McCartney

As an aside to VIA, but with direct implications for HFR, best write up in a train publication on Brightline, Virgin and the future that I've read yet:
https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/brightline-goes-virginal-what-next/

people thinking they are getting modern high speed trains

Modern High Speed Trains trains aren't diesel...

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Public perception is extremely important with publically funded projects.

It might not matter to you, but a nose cone vs no nose cone can make or break the difference between people thinking they are getting modern high speed trains vs antiquated equipment.

If ViaRail is smart enough, they may as well kill two birds with one stone; 1) a new sleek modern look which will come in handy for marketing and 2) the perception of the beginnings of higher speed rail travel and getting the public ready for the "eventual" foray into even higher speed lines.

Every time someone mentions ViaRail or I see their logo, the immediate image that gets conjured up in my mind are the F40 locomotives which in essence are a variation of slow heavy freight locomotives used in North America. I'm just hoping that they at least update or create a brand new livery for the consists and engines, something that is modern and not stuck in the early 2000s.

Even ÖBB Group took the words right out of my mind:

As part of its restructuring, the ÖBB Group has set itself, among other things, the goal of increasing its competitiveness. The high-speed train ÖBB railjet is an important part of this strategy. On behalf of Siemens, Spirit Design developed the entire exterior and interior design of the train, and under direct contract from the ÖBB Spirit Design created comprehensive brand architecture, meaning the railjet’s brand design. Here, Spirit Design benefitted from its experience in other projects within the field of transportation design, such as the development of the integrated design of the CAT City Airport Train.

Design Creates Added Value
From the outside, shape, colouring and contouring of the railjet already create associations with dynamics and speed; an impression that is reinforced by the distinctive, large lettering on both sides of the control cars. The interior was designed from the ground up: three options – Premium, Business and Economy – are available to travelers. High quality materials such as leather, wood, glass and steel characterise the interior of the railjet and give rise to an equally comfortable, safe and luxurious atmosphere.

Branding with Effect
Spirit Design developed a premium brand with a clear, modern look, and a high degree of originality, which conveys the image of an innovative, upscale means of transport. The key element is the clear and dynamic lettering. The branding, which is based upon it, encompasses the entire presence of the railjet on the market: from printed and marketing materials to the entire outer and inner labelling.

Conquering the Market in One Move
In the railjet, the ÖBB possesses a strong premium brand which is characterised by seamless branding when compared internationally. The ÖBB are sending a clear and ambitious signal as a modern, European transport company with aspirations for international leadership, and they are using the most important tool in marketing to make a lasting, positive impression with target audiences: a strong brand.

http://www.spiritdesign.com/en/work/clients-roster/oebb/oebb-railjet

I'm not holding my breath as this is ViaRail and by extension our attitude and culture for striving for the mediocre.

 

[steveintoronto]

If ViaRail is smart enough, they may as well kill two birds with one stone; 1) a new sleek modern look which will come in handy for marketing and 2) the perception of the beginnings of higher speed rail travel and getting the public ready for the "eventual" foray into even higher speed lines.

Every time someone mentions ViaRail or I see their logo, the immediate image that gets conjured up in my mind are the F40 locomotives which in essence a variation of sow heavy freight locomotives used in North America. I'm just hoping that they at least update or create a brand new livery for the consists and engines, something that is modern and not stuck in the early 2000s.

You do realize that the Vectron is a heavy haul freight as well as passenger loco in Europe, and the Charger is a direct spawn of it? And Vectrons, in even less elan looks than the present Charger and Sprinters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_ACS-64 were running in Higher Speed Rail form in Austria, Czech Republic and Switz/Germany for years prior? That's where the coach design comes from for the Brightlines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railjet

Car companies must love you guys..."Yeah, just add a spoiler Gus, it'll sell, even though it slows it down due to drag. And add the racing stripe!"
.

 

[White Pine]

I don't think we really need the nose cone. It will look fine without depending on the loco style and the livery. I don't mind the current livery for that matter, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it would look good on a charger.

Also, being in Canada (not to be stereotypical), there might be crashes with big game animals such as deer or moose (not sure if there are any moose on the corridor, though). That would probably put nice dents in the cone.

 

[steveintoronto]

Also, being in Canada (not to be stereotypical), there might be crashes with big game animals such as deer or moose (not sure if there are any moose on the corridor, though). That would probably put nice dents in the cone.

That's an excellent point, and one more: Plows. This ain't Florida. No-one except Brightline that I can find uses the cones.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

You do realize that the Vectron is a heavy haul freight as well as passenger loco in Europe, and the Charger is a direct spawn of it? And Vectrons, in even less elan looks than the present Charger and Sprinters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_ACS-64 were running in Higher Speed Rail form in Austria, Czech Republic and Switz/Germany for years prior? That's where the coach design comes from for the Brightlines.

Car companies must love you guys..."Yeah, just add a spoiler Gus, it'll sell, even though it slows it down due to drag. And add the racing stripe!"
.

There's the potential of incalculable value here which ViaRail sort of needs if they are wanting to change the perception of railway travel (disregarding cross-country leisure travel). But who knows, maybe they'll decide that they need to publish more studies.

 

[kEiThZ]

The bigger issue I see is the interior. Not the exterior.

Rail operators in Europe and the US are adopting airline style seating and seat pitch. Which works fine for a 1 hr short-haul trip. But is terrible for a 4-5 hr train ride. To beat driving and flying, the value proposition has to be competitive with both. Has to be substantially faster than than driving with cost on par (all driving costs included, not just gas). Has to allow a person to work more comfortably than they could on a plane while being almost as time competitive.

Thin padded 18in wide seats with 32in seat pitch is not going to cut it. I'd argue VIA should install seatback entertainment throughout. And angled lie flats in pods in business class. Don't put in a cafe car. Offer in-seat ordering through the screen. Make the experience better than air travel and 3 hrs onboard won't see bad at all. A guy can dream of good service.....

Also, they need to get better on their stations. Get aggressive on integration. For example, in Ottawa, bus depot is just outside downtown in a rather useless location. It's privately owned. VIA station is just off the highway and has LRT stop. VIA should just build the bus terminal and offer the bus companies to move there. And with hourly service, they should be looking at improving things like the fast food joints and lounges, and offering services like car rentals at the stations.

Imagine this. Business travel on VIA. You have a meeting in Ottawa at 11. You leave your condo at 0630 in sweats after a late night working. You catch your train at 7. Work onboard in your pod. Arrive at 10. Go to the lounge and use your arrivals lounge privileges to clean up and grab a bite, before jumping on the LRT and heading downtown for your meeting at 11.

 

[White Pine]

The bigger issue I see is the interior. Not the exterior.

Rail operators in Europe and the US are adopting airline style seating and seat pitch. Which works fine for a 1 hr short-haul trip. But is terrible for a 4-5 hr train ride. To beat driving and flying, the value proposition has to be competitive with both. Has to be substantially faster than than driving with cost on par (all driving costs included, not just gas). Has to allow a person to work more comfortably than they could on a plane while being almost as time competitive.

Thin padded 18in wide seats with 32in seat pitch is not going to cut it. I'd argue VIA should install seatback entertainment throughout. And angled lie flats in pods in business class. Don't put in a cafe car. Offer in-seat ordering through the screen. Make the experience better than air travel and 3 hrs onboard won't see bad at all. A guy can dream of good service.....

Also, they need to get better on their stations. Get aggressive on integration. For example, in Ottawa, bus depot is just outside downtown in a rather useless location. It's privately owned. VIA station is just off the highway and has LRT stop. VIA should just build the bus terminal and offer the bus companies to move there. And with hourly service, they should be looking at improving things like the fast food joints and lounges, and offering services like car rentals at the stations.

Actually Larry O'Brien was planning on trying to do that. Obviously it never panned out, though. It would have been a lot more useful than the current location. But the train station has an awkward layout to be building that.

 

[kEiThZ]

Actually Larry O'Brien was planning on trying to do that. Obviously it never panned out, though. It would have been a lot more useful than the current location. But the train station has an awkward layout to be building that.

I know he was. VIA should just build the bus bays though. Forget negotiating with that terminal owner. Bus operators will move on their own.

 

[Urban Sky]

I know he was. VIA should just build the bus bays though. Forget negotiating with that terminal owner. Bus operators will move on their own.

You seem to assume that the real estate at Oshawa Station is owned by VIA. I would assume that it's owned by Metrolinx...

 

[kEiThZ]

You seem to assume that the real estate at Oshawa Station is owned by VIA. I would assume that it's owned by Metrolinx...

Ottawa. Not Oshawa.

 

[Urban Sky]

Ottawa. Not Oshawa.

No idea how I misread that (I even googled that Larry O'Brian was Ottawa's mayor 2006-2010 and it did sound a bit odd)!
Yes, VIA owns that station, but where and with which funds and justification (I assume that Ottawa's current bus station is owned and operated by a private company, which might object to this taxpayer investment) would you build your bus terminal?

 

[kEiThZ]

No idea how I misread that (I even googled that Larry O'Brian was Ottawa's mayor 2006-2010 and it did sound a bit odd)!
Yes, VIA owns that station, but where would you build your bus terminal?

One of the current lots beside the station. As O'Brien planned. Combine with a parking structure if necessary. Hopefully one that also fits a car rental agency too.

 

[felix123]

"Ancient garbage"?

How's this look?
https://www.cnet.com/news/charger-into-the-future-inside-amtraks-new-charger-locomotive/

See:

I mean, I can see that you're passionate about this particular train, but to me, it still looks pretty awful, low-tech, and clunky. I think that the typical VIA rail passenger would take one look at that locomotive from the outside as it rolled into their station and be hard pressed to even notice that VIA had upgraded their trains.