[kEiThZ]

Every other high speed train around the world, pretty much. While Brightline doesn't mean the technical definition of HSR, the look of the locomotive certainly suggests that the train is meant to go fast.

I fall on the pro-cone side of this. Do a few TV or print ads with a picture of a Brightline-esque locomotive, and I can guarantee the reaction of a lot of people will be "Oh, Via got faster trains. I may take a look (or another look) at them now."

Perception is a big part of this, and I think a train that looks like it can go fast is an important way to get people in the proverbial door when it comes to considering Via as an option.

That could also go the other way. They get faster trains but the service hasn't changed at all, since they didn't get HFR funding. That could harm their reputation with the cognitive dissonance caused by looking at fast looking trains that are still lower than your car.

 

[kEiThZ]

apart from the whole thing on the loco, what does siemens have for the coaches and potential cab car? will it be a la brightline?

I've been most interested in this too. And all I can find so far is bascially Brightline coaches. Decent. But nothing to really right home about.

I'm impressed by what I've seen about their stations and onboard service though.

 

[lenaitch]

Is the public really that shallow that it will entranced by fancy nose cones and other shiny things? Has TTC missed the boat all along and could have solved the public's service delivery expectations by simply mounting pointy noses on its fleet?

Maybe VIA could resurrect something like this:

 

[cplchanb]

Is the public really that shallow that it will entranced by fancy nose cones and other shiny things? Has TTC missed the boat all along and could have solved the public's service delivery expectations by simply mounting pointy noses on its fleet?

Maybe VIA could resurrect something like this:

The irony is, is that the train pictured was actually probably very fast for its day...

 

[steveintoronto]

Nose cones automatically equal high speed.

And the maximum speed the VIA can run in Canada is on Class 6 track: 110 mph. "Fleet Renewal". In the US, on higher quality track, the maximum speed for a Charger is 125 mph. Maybe someday we might even see passenger running that fast in Canada. Maybe...but until then, the Chevrolet gets you there just as fast as a Lamborghini, in fact, over the longer term, faster, as the Lamborghinis have a terrible service record. Nose jobs don't make you run any faster.

The Siemens coaches, however, if they match their Railjet pedigree, are good for 250 kph

Every other high speed train around the world, pretty much

VIA isn't "High Speed Rail".

Produce a reference of service for 110 mph service with a bullet nose beside Brightline, which is the *ONLY* customer to request this.

Due to sections of Class 7 and 8 track, the FRA is allowing Brightline to travel up the locos top speed: 125 mph.

When we have High Speed Rail in this nation, or even on the horizon, then I'll entertain thought of encumbering an extremely well designed, tried and tested Vectron derived design with a nose cone added. Diesel Vectrons are used at speeds well above what even HFR is aiming for in higher speed service in Austria and many other nations already listed and linked here prior.

How about the racing stripe, Castrol stickers and rear airfoil/spoiler too? That'll make the 110 mph speed limit go much faster!

In the event, under Ministerial (Lieutenant in Council) concession, higher than Class 6 track speed can be allowed.

For some odd reason, I see no sign of that happening.

 

[steveintoronto]

Note the bullet noses!

What is railjet?
RailJet is Austrian Railways (ÖBB's) high-speed train, capable of 230 km/h (143 mph) where the route allows. RailJet trains operate on the following routes:

Munich Hbf - Salzburg - Linz - Vienna Hbf - Budapest Keleti

Zurich HB - Innsbruck - Salzburg - Linz - Vienna Hbf - Budapest Keleti (see the Arlberg Railway page)

Vienna Hbf - Graz - Klagenfurt - Udine - Venice Santa Lucia (see the Vienna to Venice page).

Prague Hlavni - Vienna Hbf - Graz (some trains on this route are blue Czech Railways railjets)

What's it like on board a railjet?
RailJet has 3 classes, economy class, first class & business class, all with free WiFi. Business class is a premium first class, called Premium class until 2012. The train is all non-smoking. Wheelchair-accessible toilets and several wheelchair spaces are available in each train.

All aboard! A morning railjet about to leave Munich for Vienna & Budapest. Munich Hauptbahnhof is just 15 minutes walk from Munich's famous Dom & Marienplatz.

RailJet from Switzerland... A railjet about to leave Zurich for Innsbruck, Salzburg & Vienna. railjets are 'push-pull', with a locomotive at one end & a driving cab (shown here) at the other.

The railjet has landed... A railjet has arrived spot on time in Budapest's historic Keleti station, built 1881-1884
Economy (2nd class )...
Economy (2nd) class has open-plan seating arranged 2+2 across the car width, most unidirectional but with some tables for 4. All seats have power sockets and a fixed or drop-down table. Large luggage racks are located at various points within the seating area, see the photo of the luggage rack in 1st class below, it's the same in all classes. See larger photo. See the seat numbering plan here.

1st class...
1st class has reclining leather seats arranged 2+1 across the car width, with tables for 2, tables for 4 people and some unidirectional seats. There are power sockets & tables at all seats. Food & drink orders are taken from the restaurant menu & served at your seat, although meals aren't included in the fare. See larger photo. See panorama photo. See the seat numbering plan here.

​

There are luggage racks like this in all classes...

1st class with tables for 2 & 4 and unidirectional seats. Larger photo.
Business class (premium 1st)...
You pay an extra €15 on top of any 1st class fare to get a business class seat, which automatically includes a reserved seat. Most railjets have only 14 business class seats (half of one car): A carpeted corridor runs down one side of the car, off which open several spacious 3 or 4 seat semi-compartments, semi because the compartments have no door and partitions are not ceiling-high. Each semi-compartment has very comfortable reclining leather armchairs with adjustable footrests & fold-out armrest table. On a few of the latest railjets (including those used on the Vienna-Venice route) there are just 6 business class seats, arranged open-plan 1+1 across the car width at one end of the train. There are power sockets & reading lights at all seats. A complimentary welcome drink of wine or fruit juice is included. Food & drink orders are taken from the restaurant menu and served at your seat, although meals aren't included in the fare. If you don't mind the extra cost, business class is highly recommended! Note that only certain booking sites can book business class (for example www.oebb.at where you select a 1st class fare then choose a business class reservation), but if you have a first class ticket you can find any empty seat and ask to pay the €15 supplement on board. See larger photo. See panorama photo. See the seat numbering plan here.


Bistro-restaurant car...
Anyone in any class can buy food & drink at the counter to take back to their seat or you can sit down and use the small waiter-service restaurant area. However, in 1st & Business classes there's no need to go to the restaurant car, staff will take your order and serve you from the restaurant menu at your seat. Food is served on proper china with metal cutlery - no airline plastic here!

Restaurant & bar counter area. Larger photo.

Food orders are taken & served at seat in 1st & business.


[...]

https://www.seat61.com/railjet.htm

Add-on proboscis only in Florida and Canada you say? Pity...

 

[steveintoronto]

The irony is, is that the train pictured was actually probably very fast for its day...

The real irony of that is that it wouldn't be allowed to do that speed on the track VIA uses, almost a century later.
A Duchess at 114 mph - YouTube

And further irony:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=LMS+...wKHQuDCQwQ9QEwAHoECAAQBA#imgrc=K8JPhGuI1e7bIM:


LMS Princess Coronation Class 6229 'Duchess of Hamilton' LNER Class A4, 4468 'Mallard'

The gorgeous LMS Princess Coronation Class Pacific steam locomotive number 6229 'Duchess of Hamilton' together with the fabulous Sir Nigel Gresley designed LNER Class A4 Pacific steam locomotive number 4468 'Mallard' inside the Great Hall at the National Railway Museum in York (UK).

Both locomotives were built in 1938 during the period of intense rivalry between the LMS and LNER. Mallard is the world record top speed holding steam locomotive achieving 126mph in 1938 too.

Note the shape of the *fastest* steam locomotive of all time, the Mallard. Gosh...where have we seen that shape used most recently?

Mallard is the holder of the world speed record for steam locomotives at 126 mph (203 km/h). The record was achieved on 3 July 1938 on the slight downward grade of Stoke Bank south of Grantham on the East Coast Main Line, and the highest speed was recorded at milepost 90¼, between Little Bytham and Essendine.

LNER Class A4 4468 Mallard - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_A4_4468_Mallard

Don't tell Canadians though. They'll take the errr...bus instead. The buses with the errr...pointy noses.

Just great in snow, eh?

 

[nfitz]

The irony is, is that the train pictured was actually probably very fast for its day...

It's a 1930s/1940s British Rail passenger locomotive. They had about 40 of them, and they ran into the 1960s. Looks like it set a speed record at 183 km/hr. I'm not sure what the top operating speed was, but it was over 160 km/hr.

Here's a wipipedia entry on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Coronation_Class

The 1930s Class A4 was faster however, exceeding 200 km/hr in speed trials.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Siemens Vaggio Coaches Brochure:
https://w5.siemens.com/cms/mam/mobility/Documents/viaggio-imagebroschuere-en.pdf

It looks like the Brightline uses a variation of the Vaggio Comfort if not exactly identical. This would probably be the for the Corridor.

Interestingly, Siemens also has the Vaggio Classic that is a sleeping coach. I wouldn't be surprised if ViaRail is also looking at these for their cross continent services. Does anyone know if there are specific regulations under Transport Canada/FRA for passenger coaches?

 

[cplchanb]

Siemens Vaggio Coaches Brochure:
https://w5.siemens.com/cms/mam/mobility/Documents/viaggio-imagebroschuere-en.pdf

It looks like the Brightline uses a variation of the Vaggio Comfort if not exactly identical. This would probably be the for the Corridor.

Interestingly, Siemens also has the Vaggio Classic that is a sleeping coach. I wouldn't be surprised if ViaRail is also looking at these for their cross continent services. Does anyone know if there are specific regulations under Transport Canada/FRA for passenger coaches?

the renders of the trains in that catalogue look depressingly good.....too bad we most likely wont get the advertised rolling stock...

 

[44 North]

Is the public really that shallow that it will entranced by fancy nose cones and other shiny things? Has TTC missed the boat all along and could have solved the public's service delivery expectations by simply mounting pointy noses on its fleet?

I think there's merit, and the TTC/Metrolinx seem to have used rounded shapes for some of their vehicles that weren't exactly necessary (Toronto Rocket, Flexity Freedom, CLRV how it tapers toward the front). This isn't like gluing some hockey sticks to the back of a Monte Carlo to look like a spoiler. The public doesn't know trains for the most part.

And yes, shiny things. New paint for the trains, regular cleaning, a more modern livery, using coaches of the same age. Right now you see a Via and it's a hodgepodge of old and older trains, dated look, drab colours. Improve those things, and there should be a quantifiable uptick in usage.

 

[steveintoronto]

Toronto Rocket, Flexity Freedom, CLRV how it tapers toward the front

Which the Charger inherently has.

https://i.redd.it/jp1y9rf1zfx01.jpg

Bombardier Transportation

Bombardier Transportation

Siemens Charger

COMMENTS (4) SHARE
The first passenger diesel locomotive order by Amtrak in 15 years - the SC-44 Charger- has now entered production. Amtrak was the launch customer for the SC-44 placing an order for 32 units; the order was upped to 58. These locomotives will be distributed between various state operations : 20 to California, 8 to Washington State, 2 to Missouri and 28 to Illinois. Other railroads have also ordered the Charger; Brightline in Florida has ten SCB-40 locomotives, MARC in the Baltimore-Washington metropolitan area purchased eight to replace their AEM-7 locomotives, and ACE in California plans to purchase five in anticipation of several major expansions, supplementing six F40PH-derived locomotives. Another California commuter operator, Coaster, also plans to purchase Chargers. The Chargers would replace EMD F40PHM-2C and EMD F59PHI locomotives. The Charger is powered by a 4,400 hp Cummins QSK95 prime mover which meets EPA Tier 4 emissions. They also feature AC traction and regenerative breaking that augments the HEP system. The Charger's top speed is 125 mph, though some have exceeded that speed in high-speed stress-testing. Siemens' overall goal for the design is to provide a clean, efficient, fast, modern, reliable, and versatile locomotive that accelerates quickly to get the job done.

As suggested before, there are 2 variations of the Charger: the SCB-40 and the SC-44. The SCB-40 so far has only been ordered by Florida's Brightline, hence its name. S stands for Siemens, C stands for Charger, B stands for Brightline, and 40 denotes 4000 horsepower. The SCB-40 is powered by the same Cummins QSK-95 prime mover as the SC-44, but produces 400 less horsepower. Another major difference is in the nose of the locomotive. The SCB-40 has a bullet-nose very similar to bullet trains of Europe, and the nose opens to reveal the front coupler. This is done to increase aerodynamics as operators of the SC-44, which does not have the bullet nose, will never reach 125 mph in service, typically reaching a maximum of 110 mph. Another reason the SCB-40 received this nose and hidden coupler is because Brightline operates trains in trainsets. This means locomotives and a set of cars stay together at all times and are treated as a set. Thus sets are never supposed to mix, but in times of emergency, 2 trainsets can be coupled together. In SC-44, S stands for Siemens, C stands for Charger, and 44 denotes 4400 horsepower.

http://locomotive.wikia.com/wiki/Siemens_Charger

[...]
The difference is basically that Brightline uses a derated prime mover, which basically increases the life of the prime mover. As you noted Brightline speced their trains for two locomotives bracketing four to eight cars, so they do not need the extra power.

OTOH Midwest speced theirs for single loco per train with specific performance criteria for reaching 125mph from stopped start, which necessitates using an uprated operation of the engine, hence the extra 400HP. AFAIR they initially speced 4,000HP, and got beat up by the F-125's better performance (supposedly). So they fixed that problem by upping to 4,400 HP.

The Brightline trains are considerably more powered than a typical NJT 10 car MLV push-pull powered by an ALP-46/A, but they are less powered than a 6 car Acela, specially in their fully built out configuration. But they are more than adequately powered for their intended operation.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,4547361

 

[crs1026]

Amtrak hauls a huge number of people in the NEC with pretty mundane looking Siemens electric locos and Amfleet coaches. Nothing pretty, but they get you there, fast.
Sure, Acela are nicer looking, but few people stop to admire them. They are no interior palaces, either, but they are more pleasant than airplanes.
Trip time, reliability, booking ease, price, station location and amenities, onboard comfort and ability to use onboard time productively, first/last mile connectivity are what matter.
Nose cones are for foamers.
- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

It's a 1930s/1940s British Rail passenger locomotive. They had about 40 of them, and they ran into the 1960s. Looks like it set a speed record at 183 km/hr. I'm not sure what the top operating speed was, but it was over 160 km/hr.

Here's a wipipedia entry on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Coronation_Class

The 1930s Class A4 was faster however, exceeding 200 km/hr in speed trials.
View attachment 165513

I have only seen a steam locomotive running at anything approaching track speed once, and when you consider the engineering and workmanship needed to have all that heavy running gear reliably operating at those speeds, it's pretty impressive.

 

[felix123]

Nose cones are for foamers.
- Paul

Not according to this foamer: