[Hipster Duck]

You can believe whatever you like, but non-mortgage debt has been rising among Canadians for a quite a while now.

I'm not believing anything except what census evidence [from the US, I'll admit, but you and I would both admit that the US is kind of a bellwether for this] tells me. Non-housing and non-transportation spending as a proportion of household discretionary income is falling.

And it's not due to "frivolous spending", in general, it's due to maintaining the appearance of a middle-class lifestyle with reduced buying power. Note that it is impossible to support a family in a middle-class way on one average income these days. A couple generations ago, that was the norm.

A couple of generations ago, most honeymoons were to Niagara Falls. A couple of generations ago the average single family home was 900 square feet. A couple of generations ago most people got their shoes repaired and their clothes patched up, rather than throwing them away and buying cheap stuff (indeed, they can afford to throw them away because clothes are so cheap now). We might blame marketing for giving people the illusion that a middle class standard of living has to include a 2,200 square foot home with 2 cars and a vacation to a destination that involves a flight, but people made those choices themselves and are at least partially at fault. I would be sympathetic to the plight of the average Canadian family if their real income bought less than the exact basket of goods that a family in 1960 bought. If we paid more money to travel to Niagara Falls; if we paid more money for clothes or for the ham on white toast sandwiches instead of the Prosciutto and Ciabatta that we buy today, etc.

 

[TOperson]

Re: debt

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/11/14/transunion-debt-credit.html

and there's plenty more where that came from.

The people buying the bigger houses and cars are not the same people going to food banks, living in overcrowded homes, being unable to save.

I didn't say that NO ONE in Canada has a middle-class lifestyle anymore, but a lot fewer people can truly afford it. The debt is what allows them to keep up appearances. That, plus the second income. But even one income is not enough to afford the 1960 basket of goods these days, not for a family.

 

[spider]

I find it amusing that so many people make the superficial connection that Walmart = cheap stuff or shoddy goods.

There is now another layer in the retail world, it's called a Dollar Store and that is where the cheap shoddy stuff is available almost exclusively. There is nothing wrong with this, what would you expect in a store that sells stuff for a dollar?

Walmart sells the same TV's, Coffee makers and cameras as the highest priced store in town except the price is lower, does that make these items junk?
Stroll through the grocery section and you will see all the familiar brands you see anywhere else in town except they are cheaper, does make them shoddy?

 

[W. K. Lis]

I find it amusing that so many people make the superficial connection that Walmart = cheap stuff or shoddy goods.

There is now another layer in the retail world, it's called a Dollar Store and that is where the cheap shoddy stuff is available almost exclusively. There is nothing wrong with this, what would you expect in a store that sells stuff for a dollar?

Walmart sells the same TV's, Coffee makers and cameras as the highest priced store in town except the price is lower, does that make these items junk?
Stroll through the grocery section and you will see all the familiar brands you see anywhere else in town except they are cheaper, does make them shoddy?

Sometimes its the quality of the materials. Walmart may sell a blouse made of polyester, while the higher price store sells the very same blouse but made of silk.

 

[TOperson]

I find it amusing that so many people make the superficial connection that Walmart = cheap stuff or shoddy goods.

There is now another layer in the retail world, it's called a Dollar Store and that is where the cheap shoddy stuff is available almost exclusively. There is nothing wrong with this, what would you expect in a store that sells stuff for a dollar?

Walmart sells the same TV's, Coffee makers and cameras as the highest priced store in town except the price is lower, does that make these items junk?
Stroll through the grocery section and you will see all the familiar brands you see anywhere else in town except they are cheaper, does make them shoddy?

Actually, often the name-brand products at WalMart ARE lower-quality versions of the same products. WM buys in such large quantities that it essentially creates new product lines. I.e. it can be profitable for a company to produce a cheaper version just for WM AND produce the better one for another buyer. In the short term, that is. Ultimately it damages their brand and this has caused some suppliers to go out of business and others to sever their relationship with WM. I read a book about WM that gets into all this.

 

[the lemur]

I find it amusing that so many people make the superficial connection that Walmart = cheap stuff or shoddy goods.

There is now another layer in the retail world, it's called a Dollar Store and that is where the cheap shoddy stuff is available almost exclusively. There is nothing wrong with this, what would you expect in a store that sells stuff for a dollar?

Walmart sells the same TV's, Coffee makers and cameras as the highest priced store in town except the price is lower, does that make these items junk?
Stroll through the grocery section and you will see all the familiar brands you see anywhere else in town except they are cheaper, does make them shoddy?

The dollar store chooses to focus on price by stocking items that are low priced to begin with and operating on very thin margins. No one is under any illusion that it's not poor quality.

Wal-Mart doesn't sell 'shoddy goods' - I don't see where you're getting that assumption from others. But it does sell 'cheap stuff' by pricing pretty much everything lower than everyone else, even if only by a few cents here or there. It does so by passing on bulk discounts at the retail level, squeezing its suppliers, undercutting its competitors and so on. I have no problem paying less for a jug of detergent at Wal-Mart if it means Procter & Gamble miss out on a few pennies, because they don't feel it. In the case of a much smaller supplier, and the workforce behind it, the discount that Wal-Mart offers means that individuals down the line are being shortchanged by us, the consumers, just so that a huge business like Wal-Mart gets a few pennies more through volume, even though Wal-Mart doesn't really need to become much more profitable and doesn't pass its profits on to its employees the way it does to its shareholders.

 

[Johnny Au]

Dollarama does sell licensed merchandise. How else would Dollarama be able to sell Disney (including Pixar and Marvel)/DreamWorks/Warner Bros. (including DC Comics)/Nickelodeon merchandise?

 

[Jonny5]

Wal-Mart doesn't sell 'shoddy goods' - I don't see where you're getting that assumption from others. But it does sell 'cheap stuff' by pricing pretty much everything lower than everyone else, even if only by a few cents here or there.

What he said is true. Many clothing and appliance makers have separate lower quality (ie. shoddy) products, that still use the same brand names, made specifically and only for Wal-Mart. Their standard products simply can't be profitably sold at Wal-Mart prices, so they make crappy ones to sell at Wal-Mart at a lower price. Often the only obvious difference is a different colour label, but they wear out faster or use much cheaper materials. This is very widely publicized information.

 

[Eug]

Arrggh. Lot of assumptions here that aren't necessarily true.

The milk you get at Wal-Mart is the same milk you get a Loblaws or whatever. Yes there are lower tier lines that get sold at the likes of Wal-Mart, but Wal-Mart and even Dollarama sometimes sell the exact same stuff as other places. eg. At Wal-Mart they sometimes sell Umbra garbage cans or whatever, and these are sometimes even the exact same items you'll find at the trendy pink Umbra store off Queen.

Ironically though when they do have those same items, the prices aren't always cheaper. The same is true with produce, which is one reason I don't actually get my produce at Wal-Mart. Chinatown is actually consistently cheaper, often with fresher stuff too.

As for the lower tier lines existing, that may be true, but it's not as if going to places like The Bay will guarantee higher tier lines either. A lot of the big sales on clothing you get at The Bay is on lower end so-called name brand stuff that would be similarly cheap at Wal-Mart.

That's why I often comparison shop online first for a lot of items before choosing a store to go to. One thing I do consistently get at Wal-Mart is baby formula. It's the exact same formula you get at Shoppers Drug Mart and Loblaws, but it's one thing that is relatively consistently cheaper. I wonder if it's their way of getting customers in. Baby formula is something you can comparison shop online, and it's a basic staple that's easily compared between stores and which needs to be purchased reasonably frequently, but it's not a quickly perishable item like fresh tomatoes. I digress, but the point to make here is that Kensington Market is never my preferred shopping destination for baby formula, nor is it my preferred shopping destination for garbage cans.

BTW, if you want cheap, the store I find consistently cheapest on stuff I might get is Costco, not Wal-Mart. However, the difference with Costco is that they require a membership, and they push things in bulk. I don't usually need to buy 10 steaks at a time, and I don't want to pay $50 a year for that privilege, so I usually don't shop at Costco.

 

[spider]

Sometimes its the quality of the materials. Walmart may sell a blouse made of polyester, while the higher price store sells the very same blouse but made of silk.

Yes and the label clearly states the fabric used. Do you have a point or do you just hate Walmart?

 

[spider]

Actually, often the name-brand products at WalMart ARE lower-quality versions of the same products. WM buys in such large quantities that it essentially creates new product lines. I.e. it can be profitable for a company to produce a cheaper version just for WM AND produce the better one for another buyer. In the short term, that is. Ultimately it damages their brand and this has caused some suppliers to go out of business and others to sever their relationship with WM. I read a book about WM that gets into all this.

Perhaps you could elevate this urban legend to fact with an example or two, intelligent shoppers would like to know.

 

[spider]

What he said is true. Many clothing and appliance makers have separate lower quality (ie. shoddy) products, that still use the same brand names, made specifically and only for Wal-Mart. Their standard products simply can't be profitably sold at Wal-Mart prices, so they make crappy ones to sell at Wal-Mart at a lower price. Often the only obvious difference is a different colour label, but they wear out faster or use much cheaper materials. This is very widely publicized information.

You really think that Sony, GE, Black and Decker etc are going to compromise their reputation to make Walmart happy?
If this makes good business sense then they would do it with all their customers, OOPS, then the Sony TV sold at Walmart would be the same as that sold at Best Buy. That would never do would it.

 

[spider]

I heard the milk walmart sells is fake, made from electronic cows with plastic udders.

Revolting news.

 

[TOperson]

Perhaps you could elevate this urban legend to fact with an example or two, intelligent shoppers would like to know.

http://www.walmarteffectbook.com/

 

[Eug]

You really think that Sony, GE, Black and Decker etc are going to compromise their reputation to make Walmart happy?
If this makes good business sense then they would do it with all their customers, OOPS, then the Sony TV sold at Walmart would be the same as that sold at Best Buy. That would never do would it.

Interestingly, companies like Costco often get different models of certain electronic equipment than companies like Best Buy. However, the model numbers are also different. I suspect the reason though is so people can't price match.

eg. Future Shop might get the Toshiba ABC for $199, but Costco will have the Toshiba XYZ for $179, but it will be the exact same device except for maybe an extra HDMI cord in the box. Firmware updates are the same but different. The content of the firmware update is the same, because the product is the same, but ABC's firmware update can't be used for XYZ and vice versa because the model number is different. This is not uncommon practice for consumer electronics. However, sometimes those models are indeed different. eg. The full-on Future Shop version might have WiFi, but the Costco version might not, justifying the $20 lower price. Furthermore, the Costco version is only available at Costco, and nowhere else. I presume the same is sometimes true for Wal-Mart, but I don't follow consumer electronics much at Wal-Mart so I'm not sure.

You should also check out KitchenAid stand mixers at Future Shop vs Canadian Tire vs. other. There are a bazillion different models that all look very similar and which all have slightly different specs, different enough that you can't price match between stores. Even the high end models are a bit like that sometimes. You can get a pro model of the one I bought but it comes with a different warranty and a bowl with a different handle, but it is otherwise the same hardware as the consumer model. How different is the bowl? Well the bowl itself is basically the same, but the handle on the consumer model is a regular handle, whereas the handle on the pro model's bowl is open at the bottom, so you can use the handle as a hook to hang off metal shelving you find in commercial kitchens. And if say you want the red one, in the US for a time you could only get it at William Sonoma.

However, the notable point here is that the model numbers are different. You're not going to get polyester for a product that's advertised as silk. More likely, a lower end store just won't carry the silk version at all, and of course won't advertise it as being silk. eg. If you go to a higher end store, you might find Kenneth Cole New York clothing. If you go to The Bay, you find Kenneth Cole Reaction. Both are Kenneth Cole, but the NY stuff has better quality fabrics. However, it's not as if you've been truly duped at The Bay, because they never advertised the stuff as being NY in the first place.