News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 8.9K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 40K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 5.1K     0 

I'd like a thread started about Tommy Thompson Park (the Leslie Spit).

I know there's nothing really "urban" about the park, but IMO there's some really great things going on there...all so close to downtown. In a decade it will really be a large, nice forest. And work is underway for Cell 2 (the second major lake within the spit).

I think within a generation, it might even be a site that rivals Stanley Park in Vancouver. Although not as close to the core, its position encloses a lot of our harbour and island. As a well-established nature preserve, it will go a long way to making Toronto a "green" city.
 
I'd like a thread started about Tommy Thompson Park (the Leslie Spit).

I know there's nothing really "urban" about the park, but IMO there's some really great things going on there...all so close to downtown. In a decade it will really be a large, nice forest. And work is underway for Cell 2 (the second major lake within the spit).

I think within a generation, it might even be a site that rivals Stanley Park in Vancouver. Although not as close to the core, its position encloses a lot of our harbour and island. As a well-established nature preserve, it will go a long way to making Toronto a "green" city.

There is one, in the construction thread.
 
The Waterfront Plan intends to fund itself through a cylindrical system of development, but Ford wants that money!

Doug Ford returns to an old topic: The Port Lands

Nearly two months removed from an aborted attempt to seize control of waterfront planning, Councillor Doug Ford made his first public comments about the derelict lands to the east of downtown. Asked what property he would like to see developed in Toronto, Mr. Ford had this to say.

“There is a piece of property in Toronto that doesn’t exist anywhere in the world, and it’s approximately 500 acres of prime property, and that’s called the Port Lands. And we need to develop the Port Lands, and we need to collect the $2- to $3-billions that Colliers just appraised that Port Lands for. We need the revenue, not other people. [Waterfront Toronto] are coming out with their proposed plan — we’ll work with them — the bottom line is we need the money.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/1...s-to-an-old-topic-the-port-lands/#more-112060
 
I was walking on Lake Shore and Cherry yesterday and there were guys putting up temporary power poles and lots of big trailers on the Home Depot/Tent City site. Anyone know what's going on?
 
"We need the money."

You voted to freeze property taxes and axe the vehicle registration fee. Too bad he can't admit that he's part of the problem.
 
Rob Ford said:
We need the revenue, not other people.

Who is the we and who are the other people? My understanding is that the we is Toronto businesses and residents paying taxes and the other people are Toronto businesses and residents paying taxes. The only difference is that the other people in the Waterfront Toronto plan are many generations of Toronto residents and businesses and grow the tax base and the we are the Toronto residents and businesses of the current four years. Rob Ford will blow the money now in a blaze of tax cutting glory at the expense of the future.
 
Who is the we and who are the other people? My understanding is that the we is Toronto businesses and residents paying taxes and the other people are Toronto businesses and residents paying taxes. The only difference is that the other people in the Waterfront Toronto plan are many generations of Toronto residents and businesses and grow the tax base and the we are the Toronto residents and businesses of the current four years. Rob Ford will blow the money now in a blaze of tax cutting glory at the expense of the future.

One of the weirder things in this whole argument (especially from Dougie) is that the Port Lands has a ton of things going on right now. I stayed on the 72A for a quick morning tour instead of my usual transfer one day last week, and Commissioners is chock-a-block with businesses. Bus was full of workers headed to the office/plant/site. The main draws, workers-wise, would be the huge Toronto Hydro building and Pinewoods, both of which were packed. But the whole stretch had people headed to work. Add to that the fact that the T+T parking lot was half full, the cement compound was sending out a whack of trucks, and the construction guys working on the sewers at Cherry/Parliament/Lake Shore, and it was really busy.

Now, Unwin is definitely less of a draw, but at the moment it has a movie being filmed in the old power plant and power being generated in the new, as well as all the construction at Tommy Thompson.

All in all, you can make a case for the Port Lands getting built out. But you really can't say that it's a wasteland of crazy proportions right now.
 
Told Ya So!

‘I told you so,’ says councillor Ford about new Port Lands plan
ELIZABETH CHURCH
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Mar. 29, 2012 3:00AM EDT

WEBford07nw4_jp_1382230cl-8.jpg


There is no mention of a Ferris wheel or a monorail, but a new look at kick-starting development of Toronto’s Port Lands includes a less pricey option for the mouth of the Don River that allows for more development and less green space.

The study examines when – and how – to develop the Port Lands, which stretch from the inner harbour east to Leslie Street. The interim findings will be released Saturday at a public open house. An advance copy, obtained by The Globe and Mail, identifies areas where development could begin within years instead of decades. But all that depends upon the right market conditions and the city figuring out a way to deliver transit and services to the eastern waterfront.

Councillor Doug Ford says the study proves his point. It was his musing last summer about fast-tracking development with a luxury hotel, a megamall and a Ferris wheel linked to the downtown by monorail that led to the current re-examination.

“I told you so. You can print that in big letters,” Mr. Ford said. “They are looking at mixed use and one of the critical things is transportation. The only thing they are missing is the Ferris wheel.”

Others have a different take on the findings, which include a study of real estate demand and financing options, as well as alternatives to the award-winning plans to transform the mouth of the Don River from a stagnant channel to a waterfront park.

“He must have a different set of expert reports than I’ve been reading,” said Councillor Paula Fletcher, whose ward includes the Port Lands. “It is not a slam dunk. This is a very complicated, long-term project.”

The Port Lands study is a joint effort by the city and Waterfront Toronto. It’s part of a compromise struck by city councillors after Mr. Ford failed to get the needed support for his plan to take control of developing the lands from Waterfront Toronto. A final report is set to go to the city’s executive committee in June and to council a month later.

A review of office and residential demand commissioned for the study shows that even with services in place it will take decades to build out the entire Port Lands – an area equal in size to the downtown core. It singles out sites such as land at the northern edge of the area that could be developed first under the right conditions.

Mr. Ford – long frustrated by Waterfront Toronto’s lengthy development timeline – dismissed those findings. “I totally disagree with that,” he said. “I’ll get another firm to tell you something totally opposite. The market is there.”

Still, he pledged to continue to work with the agency on its plans. “We are moving it forward,” he said.

One of the most controversial issues the study addresses is the transformation of the Don River mouth. The original plan developed by Waterfront Toronto included a $634-million design to naturalize the river’s banks as it flowed to the lake. The design is the result of years of consultations and part of an environmental assessment. The new study takes a second look at the other options included in the environmental assessment and proposes an alternative to the chosen design. That alternative leaves larger blocks of land for development and includes a more narrow strip of riverside park.

John Campbell, head of Waterfront Toronto, estimates the new design will save between $100-million and $150-million. Its real advantage, he said, is that it can be built in phases, allowing development to begin before all the work is done.

“The dream isn’t quite as big as it was, but it is still a naturalized river and green space,” he said. Building the project in “digestible chucks” means the costs will be spread. First up would be the “spillway,” a stretch of green space that runs south to the shipping channel that he estimates would cost $50-million.

John Wilson, a long-time advocate for the Don River and a member of the advisory group consulted for the study, said he is saddened by the prospect of losing the planned promontory park at the mouth of the river and the spectacular city views it promised. But he says the revised plan is “something that can be built.” The best case, he said, would be to have the original designers work on the new plan. “I’d love to see them put some pizzazz and wow back into it,” he said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ord-about-new-port-lands-plan/article2385123/

What did Ford try to prove? That we should squeeze more money out the Portlands at any costs? That we should flood the market with condos and offices?
 
Last edited:
What did Ford try to prove? That we should squeeze more money out the Portlands at any costs? That we should flood the market with condos and offices?

The guy's a loudmouth and a bully. I'd love to see him put into the job of signing all those new leases -- working for your dad in a label business is not the ideal learning environment for biz dev in the commercial RE business. I bet he wouldn't be able to sign one lease until he dropped his pants and bent over in desperation to do a deal -- any deal. Unfortunately, it would be our tax dollars at risk, not just his private parts.

So, what are we going to get? Less park, about the same timeframe for build out, no mention of transit building out faster (unless that's wrapped up in 'services'). I'd say, just like the 'let's mess up the transit file' fiasco, we're getting a delay so Ford can say he did something to speed this up, and that's about it.
 
I'm of the opinion that it is mostly due to logistical (not financial) reasons as to why they chose to remove the naturalized mouth of the river.

Looking at the diagram provided by the Globe, it's only really 150m of river that is affected. The shipping slip that will be used as the river's mouth (as per the original plan) will continue to have its concrete confinement intact. So what's mostly gone is the wetland/delta at the river's new mouth, and 150m of "naturalized" river.

Now I believe this is logistical. I think during EAs, it was deduced that creating a delta/wetland in an active harbour and shipping area is not as feasible as once thought. Perhaps this may be due to the depth of the harbour, and the subsequent growth of this wetland due to river sediment deposits and if/how they would be dredged.

This is my speculation.
 
The change was a lot less serious than I thought - the basically stuck with the 4WS alternative while paring back the naturalistic elements. The plan put forth by the brothers/TEDCO was more like the 4W alternative - which would see the Keating channel remain the main outflow with a secondary N-S spillway.

See the evaluation matrix here in p. 16 of the PDF:

http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/uploads/documents/executivesummary_1.pdf

AoD
 
This could have been a lot worse -- the changes seem practical and reasonable to me, and we still get the basics of the original effort.

I'm not clear, though, on what the timeline is for this, and how malleable it might be if a more amenable mayor comes into office in a few years.
 
The change was a lot less serious than I thought - the basically stuck with the 4WS alternative while paring back the naturalistic elements.

Exactly. Unlike Doug's "do nothing" approach to the river. And thinking investors would clamour over building a 5-Star, boat-in hotel along the Keating Channel; the narrow discharge of Canada's 3rd most polluted river.

Part of my environmental side is saddened by the loss of the naturalized mouth. I'm hoping a compromise of sorts can be made. But again, I don't see it being logistically feasible to have a wetland/delta in the active shipping area of the Inner Harbour.
 
"Told Us"...what?

That it should be mixed use developments? - as already planned.
That it needs transit? - as already planned - though the Fords have ostensibly impaired streetcar transit on the waterfront since they got into office.

I'm not sure what his point is. That waterfront property is desirable once the soil is cleaned and infrastructure is in place? That we don't need to be bothered about completing the central waterfront, and all that has been promised for it, first? That it's OK to throw out taxpayer funded plans, so long as he's in control? That the current plan which contains bold public parks and solutions can't also be funded in stages? That's it's not hard to find a bunch of folks to tell you what you want to hear, so long as they're in for the kill?

I can't believe he's still going on about that damn ferris wheel. You'd think he'd learned his lesson.
These two will not relent - they'll always be trying to pull something underhanded, as long as they're in power.
It's interesting that the Ford's sense of economics are so fantastic and elastic when dealing with mass transit, but so urgent and pinched here.

I hope council rejects this latest bit of WaterfronToronto making nice with the Fords, and sticks with the original plans. At least he's saying up front it's a cash grab. The original plans have more than enough room to accomodate wide-ranging mixed uses, while creating an optimal setting that will be a real gift to future generations. Another hasty, tower-dependent plan at the expense of the public realm is not a mistake we want to repeat.

I hope CodeBlue gets back into this.
 
Last edited:
Diagram from the Globe. At this point we should keep the river mouth urban, instead of half-heartedly re-naturalizing it. Some of points I agree with (i.e. relocating the spillway), but not the reduction in the parkland.

nw-Waterfront-grap_1389835a.jpg


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...updated-proposal/article2385319/?from=2385123

This is what we're losing- the wide meanders and floodplains of a park that pays respect to the river, instead of confining it.

http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/uploads/documents/port_lands_estuary_1.pdf
 
Last edited:

Back
Top