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Jasmine18 said:
and the liberals somehow made a surplus of energy lead to massive hikes in energy prices.
Click to expand...

Surplus energy was sold at a loss, that's true. It was green energy from turbines put up by the Liberals themselves, which were put into place because we *needed* more power and were risking brownouts. But it's not why rates have gone up so much. We don't have massive battery plants that can hold excess energy at times we produce more than we can use. It has to go somewhere unless you want to build the world's largest tesla coil to just waste it in a flashy light show. Selling it at a "loss" (ie; lower-than-market rates), is not a net loss, it just means we haven't made as much money on it as we could've.

Hikes in energy prices are almost entirely because of the refurbishment of our nuclear power plants. Darlington alone is a $13B refurbishment (the gas plant scandal is a drop in the bucket in comparison), and because nuclear is the backbone of our power supply, it's not like we can afford to NOT fix it up (you wanna risk California-style rolling outages and/or a meltdown?). And then we went and delayed the construction of two additional gas powerplants because of poor consultation and NIMBYism. No matter which government were in power over the past decade, these refurbishments and plant constructions were needed, and the government in power would need to expend money. We need more power now and in the future. Far more than Quebec could ever hope to supply to us.

So exactly how would another government have prevented hydro rate increases? Do tell.
 
Admiral Beez said:
It is bizarre that lower demand equals higher prices. Are there no economists in Wynne’s cabinet?

As for DoFo, my guess if he loses is that he circles back to run for mayor, again.
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They need to protect the bottom line; it's also funny how prices go up with supply-demand on a public utility.

Dougie's a narcissist with daddy issues, not unlike Robbie.
 
someMidTowner said:
Demeaning nickname? Check
Lazy slogan? Check
Just a few alternative facts shy of overcooked Cheeto status.
Click to expand...

Not a response. Not an argument.

Kathy is a lethal fiscal criminal who has succeeded in destroying jobs and wealth in the Have turned Have Not (thanks to her) province of Ontario. She and her tribe of neo socialists have left us in such disarray that Ontario is growing dangerously close to not being able to refinance its debt at this point, let along pay it down.

Anyone who thinks that this woman is not dangerous to our society simply has an alternative agenda.
 
LMVDR said:
Not a response. Not an argument.

Kathy is a lethal fiscal criminal who has succeeded in destroying jobs and wealth in the Have turned Have Not (thanks to her) province of Ontario. She and her tribe of neo socialists have left us in such disarray that Ontario is growing dangerously close to not being able to refinance its debt at this point, let along pay it down.

Anyone who thinks that this woman is not dangerous to our society simply has an alternative agenda.
Click to expand...

Unemployment is the lowest it's been in 20 years.
Ontario's GDP growth is leading the country.

So what on earth are you talking about?
 
zang said:
Surplus energy was sold at a loss, that's true. It was green energy from turbines put up by the Liberals themselves, which were put into place because we *needed* more power and were risking brownouts. But it's not why rates have gone up so much. We don't have massive battery plants that can hold excess energy at times we produce more than we can use. It has to go somewhere unless you want to build the world's largest tesla coil to just waste it in a flashy light show. Selling it at a "loss" (ie; lower-than-market rates), is not a net loss, it just means we haven't made as much money on it as we could've.

Hikes in energy prices are almost entirely because of the refurbishment of our nuclear power plants. Darlington alone is a $13B refurbishment (the gas plant scandal is a drop in the bucket in comparison), and because nuclear is the backbone of our power supply, it's not like we can afford to NOT fix it up (you wanna risk California-style rolling outages and/or a meltdown?). And then we went and delayed the construction of two additional gas powerplants because of poor consultation and NIMBYism. No matter which government were in power over the past decade, these refurbishments and plant constructions were needed, and the government in power would need to expend money. We need more power now and in the future. Far more than Quebec could ever hope to supply to us.

So exactly how would another government have prevented hydro rate increases? Do tell.
Click to expand...


So you just defend stupidity by the liberals saying that everyone would engage in it?

I think the issue is the liberals did not care what the cost of hydro was for the average person and only cared when the polls showed they will lose an election over this issue.

I think what you fail to realize is no one cares if the price was going to go up, it is that the liberals did nothing for over a decade to stop the price increases and made the price increases worse then expected.
 
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Jasmine18 said:
Then why are going into debt then apart from helping Wynne to get reelected?
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^This sentence doesn't make sense. Going into debt isn't getting Wynne re-elected. Perhaps you mean, "why are we helping Wynne to be re-elected if it means that we will be going into debt?"

Anyway, GDP growth and low unemployment do not necessarily decrease debt. With access to sufficient credit as Ontario has, one can spend significantly more than total revenue.
This is sometimes done to create economic stimulus, which is part of the reason why, cycling back, unemployment is the lowest it's been in 20 years and Ontario's GDP growth is leading the country.
In the case to which I think you're referring, the Liberal party has also proposed to increase social spending. Whether you think the benefits of those programs, like expanded pharmacare and daycare, outweigh the cost is up to you, but you speak only for yourself and not for anyone else.
 
felix123 said:
^This sentence doesn't make sense. Going into debt isn't getting Wynne re-elected. Perhaps you mean, "why are we helping Wynne to be re-elected if it means that we will be going into debt?"

Anyway, GDP growth and low unemployment do not necessarily decrease debt. With access to sufficient credit as Ontario has, one can spend significantly more than total revenue.
This is sometimes done to create economic stimulus, which is part of the reason why, cycling back, unemployment is the lowest it's been in 20 years and Ontario's GDP growth is leading the country.
In the case to which I think you're referring, the Liberal party has also proposed to increase social spending. Whether you think the benefits of those programs, like expanded pharmacare and daycare, outweigh the cost is up to you, but you speak only for yourself and not for anyone else.
Click to expand...

Considering her poll number have not improved and she is resorting to negative politics shows it has not worked for her.

She had a surplus last year and now we are going into debt this year because it is an election year.

Why wasn't this spending done last year if it was so urgent?

What has the 100's of billions of dollars of Liberal debt over the past 15 years get us if we are still spending on these basic things?

To me it was very reckless because any economic downturn caused by any global event and our debt levels will explode and cause a problem for this province.
 
Jasmine18 said:
Considering her poll number have not improved and she is resorting to negative politics shows it has not worked for her.

She had a surplus last year and now we are going into debt this year because it is an election year.

Why wasn't this spending done last year if it was so urgent?

What has the 100's of billions of dollars of Liberal debt over the past 15 years get us if we are still spending on these basic things?

To me it was very reckless because any economic downturn caused by any global event and our debt levels will explode and cause a problem for this province.
Click to expand...

Surpluses have nothing to do with debt. What you're talking about is deficit.

Also, Jasmine18, you have posted on UrbanToronto 260 times now, and after scanning through your posts, I can see that you have literally no interest in anything related to Urbanism in Toronto. You haven't posted one constructive comment on any building, transit system, park or other public space, which is what this forum is primarily about. UrbanToronto is not your platform for twitter-style political rants about how much you hate Justin Trudeau, over and over and over.

In fact, the *only* 2 posts of yours that I saw that were even slightly non-political were about:
1) How we should patrol Canada's Northern border with drones;
2) How we should impose tolls on 400-series highways, "like they do in the US".

So I guess what I'm saying is, what could you say now to disprove that you really have no interest in UrbanToronto and are just here to spout your conservative political views and slogans?
 
felix123 said:
Surpluses have nothing to do with debt. What you're talking about is deficit.

Also, Jasmine18, you have posted on UrbanToronto 260 times now, and after scanning through your posts, I can see that you have literally no interest in anything related to Urbanism in Toronto. You haven't posted one constructive comment on any building, transit system, park or other public space, which is what this forum is primarily about. UrbanToronto is not your platform for twitter-style political rants about how much you hate Justin Trudeau, over and over and over.

In fact, the *only* 2 posts of yours that I saw that were even slightly non-political were about:
1) How we should patrol Canada's Northern border with drones;
2) How we should impose tolls on 400-series highways, "like they do in the US".

So I guess what I'm saying is, what could you say now to disprove that you really have no interest in UrbanToronto and are just here to spout your conservative political views and slogans?
Click to expand...

How about I say that I am not here to appease you or that I am here to agree with your viewpoints.

I am not really a conservative and you are likely in a bubble where everyone does not agree with your righteousness must be a right-wing lunatic...

People do not like the Liberals in Ontario and Trudeau has been a huge letdown.

I am more than open to vote NDP to stop the Liberals actually and I think the liberals need to lose like any party in power for decades needs to lose.

Any govt in party for 15 years grows arrogant and needs a kick in the backside and the liberals deserve that.
 
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