Prometheus The Supremo
►Member №41+⅜◄
that would be the devil we don't know.
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- Thread starter Dan416
- Start date
that would be the devil we don't know.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Filip, lots of nations have done lots of bad things as well to my grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. Sometimes, it's just better to let go and not obsess over offences from generations ago and over minuscule and insignificant national differences. If there's any aspect of history that repeats itself, it's endless wars prompted by grudges passed down through generations.
Oh, and as an aside, are you aware that Russia has the world's biggest neo-Nazi movement and large neo-Nazi celebrations on Hitler's birthday?
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080417/105342726.html
Oh, and as an aside, are you aware that Russia has the world's biggest neo-Nazi movement and large neo-Nazi celebrations on Hitler's birthday?
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080417/105342726.html
ganjavih
Senior Member
Wise words from unimaginative.
Filip
Senior Member
If we forget the wrongs done to us, we are bound to have them happen to us again.
Forgiving is simply not in human nature, we must always allow reservations when taking into account a country that has done this many times before.
Re: Russian Nazis, every country has them. It's sad, embarassing and pathetic, but those degenerates are spitting on their nation and their culture with their ideology.
afransen
Senior Member
I wonder if that sentiment will ever be applied here wrt native land claims, damages etc. Should the children of the sinners be making amends to the children of the victims? Certainly the victims of the residential school system should be compensated, but for how many generations do we need to make amends?
afransen
Senior Member
I think it is rather the opposite. Humans are social; if we didn't forgive we'd all be on our own.
Filip
Senior Member
Would you ever completely forgive someone for screwing you over? I don't know about you, I might 'forgive' him but I'll always hold strong reservations.
afransen
Senior Member
ie, forgive but never forget?
Filip
Senior Member
I always found that a bit contradictory. How can you forgive someone without forgetting what he did?
Prometheus The Supremo
►Member №41+⅜◄
Dichotomy
Banned
Many of the world's political controversies revolve around just this issue. The Jews kicked the Palestinians out of 'their land' and the world did nothing. How far do we want to go back? The Europeans powers annhilated most of the indigenous populations of the Americas, then shipped over hundreds of thousands of slaves. Is there anyone alive today who was responsible for those acts? No. The Jewish community makes it their banner cry to 'never forget' what the Nazis did to them - and still fanatically hunt down former Nazis around the globe.
JFK? He filled the vacuum in Vietnam when the French left. His true history is yet unwritten.
What did we do to the Japanese-North Americans on the west coast? Was it awful? Yes. Is it not true that German nationals behind Allied lines throughout Belgium, the Netherlands and France blew up bridges, downed phone lines and worse to pave the way for the German blitzkrieg? After Pearl Harbor, the US Pacific fleet lay in ruins. There was real panic that Japan could attack the west coast and possibly invade. The U.S. has, after all, two coasts to protect. When is the Japanese government going to pay China for what it did in Manchuria? Perhaps they should give Nissan to the Chinese, since Nissan was formed by the Japanese military bank to build tanks and trucks in Manchuria, using Chinese slave labor. Don't see that on Nissan's website either, do we?
Stalin was a paranoid maniac. Hitler, then the Allies had to make a deal with that devil. Frankly, we are lucky that Hitler beat his forces silly on the bodies of the Russian army, lest we be speaking German today.
Dresden? Nagasaki? Hiroshima? Considering how many American, British and Canadians died just to take the Philipines back, and how intransigent the Japanese were, can you blame the Americans for dropping 'the bomb?' Besides, many believe Truman was trying to warn Stalin. The Japanese were collateral damage, unfortunately.
And that, boys and girls, is the ugly nature of politics: you have to have human flaws involved. All world powers, from Khan up to the current American hegemon, have had to make deals that were less than ideal. Although I doubt Khan slept poorly at night after he had wiped out an entire town.
We are, by nature, not a forgiving lot. As our globe gets more crowded, we had better hope we exorcise our demons, because the toys any crackpot dictator today can get their hands on make anything that Stalin had look like a firecracker.
afransen
Senior Member
Whether or not the Allies considered firebombing Dresden, and flattening Nagasaki and Hiroshima militarily necessary is beside the point. I find it distasteful when the US (or Canada for that matter) get all high and mighty about how morally superior we were/are. We did some pretty awful things to innocent civilians, who had no ability to influence their government. Yes Hitler was an evil madman that had to be stopped, but that doesn't really excuse going out of our way to slaughter civilians.
urbandreamer
recession proof
Filip, do you know any Canadians of Germanic background?
Why did NATO (America) have to bomb Serbia a decade ago?
Anyhow, the point should be, filip: you are Canadian. Forget the old country.
Why did NATO (America) have to bomb Serbia a decade ago?
Anyhow, the point should be, filip: you are Canadian. Forget the old country.
Filip
Senior Member
Of course I do, as long as nobody gets all high and mighty with me, I can be friends with anyone.
NATO (America) bombed Serbia for propagandic LIES. Apparently whole stadiums of Kosovars were being killed, and Clinton used the number of 200 000 dead to start the bombing campaign and garner support (even though the bombing was illegal according to the UN).
After NATO took over, they couldn't find more than 2000 dead, mostly mixed with Serbs killed by the KLA. So tell me, what was the reason again?
Dichotomy
Banned
But when has war been anything else but? The Vikings would slaughter all the men, rape the women and burn the villages to the ground. Why? Total subjugation. Spreading their seed. The Allies were all full of promise and morality - in 1939. How many politicians declared the 'boys' would be back in time for Christmas?
Have you ever been in a mob? I mean a real mob scene: police, thousands of screaming people? Fists flying? Tempers flared? I have. It gets ugly and there is a certain energy that takes over. All civility goes out the window. That can only be a taste of being shot at, sleeping in trenches, boot rot, etc., bad food, bed bugs, not seeing one's family for 18 months...and being a kid of 20 or 22!
How can we, typing on our stunning LCD screens, listening to our satellite radio, electric fire place crackling in the background, sparkling mineral water at hand possibly judge what the grunts in the trenches, the officers or the politicians of the day had to deal with?
Have you ever tried to get a room full of people to agree what to buy for lunch? Now multiply that by tens of thousands of people.
Books and movies are full of the tragedy of war. The worst kind of tragedy, IMO, is when communication breaks down. People slaughter their own by accident. Diplomatic subtleties are lost. We damned near got ourselves microwaved in '61 because Kennedy and Khruschev couldn't talk to each other!
Try playing a chess match where you have 15 seconds to make a move or you get jolted with 220 volts. That would be a tiny taste of what Roosevelt, Churchill and their cronies had to go through.