[crs1026]

Ford will NOT allow that much federal largess pass thru his fingers especially when he could use it on RER which helps the 905 commuters just as much as it does 416. This is why RER stands for "Regional" rail............it's a connecting system that all areas of the GTA will benefit from. If anything I think Ford would double down on RER and try to bring the entire system up to true grade separated subway/Metro standard.

Totally agree. Ford’s constituency is the 905 and the outer 416, and that’s a territory where GO is valued. The train experience for that constituency is currently crowded and congested, so shutting down RER would not gain Ford support. His platform has to acknowledge the need for growth and investment. But - how much? How fast?

I disagree however that anyone out there expects “true grade separated subway/Metro standard.” It’s the UT urban hipsters who are clamouring for that. And frankly, it’s two decades before ridership will justify that.

2WAD with 10ish minute headways at peak and 20-30ish headways off peak, on all GO lines, is all that is needed to delight that constituency. That can be delivered without electrification, with medium quality traffic control, with the existing fleet, and with modest stations. That gives Ford the opportunity to cut ML’s financial ask waaay back.

- Paul

 

[JSF-1]

I really don't think kicking the can down the road should be an option. Electrification is not going to get any cheaper and if we delay now, in 20 or 30 years when the topic is brought up again the price will have jumped again. This isn't the first time this has happened, since electrifying GO goes all the way back to the days of GO ALRT and we dropped that idea and with it the electrification; and as expected the price has since dramatically increased. If we know demand will be there in the future not building today would be a disaster and speaks to the state of Ontario's incompetent transit planning. I really do wish we for once had people in power who had a grasp on the "long term thinking" concept but nobody does, its always here and now, damn the future. If we know demand will be there in 20/30 years than the work needed today shouldn't be a problem since we know it will pay dividends tomorrow. Not doing anything however seems to be the typical "Ontarioism"and as long as we follow that path nothing will ever change.

 

[Rainforest]

Here's a simple question. How many of you would vote PC if Doug Ford promised to make the DRL a priority and start construction in this first term?

I would give him a chance, if a very specific promise on that matter was made.

Despite my distaste of his brother's term as Mayor, and despite Doug himself being my least favored PC leadership candidate.

 

[ssiguy2]

I disagree however that anyone out there expects “true grade separated subway/Metro standard.” It’s the UT urban hipsters who are clamouring for that. And frankly, it’s two decades before ridership will justify that.

2WAD with 10ish minute headways at peak and 20-30ish headways off peak, on all GO lines, is all that is needed to delight that constituency. That can be delivered without electrification, with medium quality traffic control, with the existing fleet, and with modest stations. That gives Ford the opportunity to cut ML’s financial ask waaay back.

- Paul

I disagree.

First, Ford has to differentiate his transit platform from that of Wynne's. If he doesn't then he is effectively stating that what Wynne is doing right and the money she is using is being put to good use. Whether both are true or not is irrelevant, the last thing he wants to do is effectively state that Wynne's transit plan is right and the billions are being well spent.

Second, Stating RER will continue as is will get him no extra votes and in fact could cost him as Torontonians are not embracing RER. Right now the UPX is RER without the electrification and people aren't using it. People will be saying that if this is what RER ends up being then we don't want it. GO's huge increase in frequencies has also not resulted in any large gains for it's ridership either as it's ridership last year grew by less than the population growth. By transferring some of those LRT funds over to RER and making it grade separated with subway frequencies he would be able to tell the long suffering 905 & 416 commuters that subways are coming to their neighbourhood while Wynne is only giving you more of the same.

 

[MisterF]

Right now the UPX is RER without the electrification and people aren't using it. People will be saying that if this is what RER ends up being then we don't want it. GO's huge increase in frequencies has also not resulted in any large gains for it's ridership either as it's ridership last year grew by less than the population growth.

That's because fares haven't been integrated with the TTC yet. Make it so that the subway and RER cost the same for the same distance and ridership will skyrocket. But apparently they don't have the capacity for much higher ridership on UPX. On the rest of the network, the schedule is very inconsistent, with hourly service stopping for much of the day because the infrastructure for true all day service isn't built yet. Once frequencies are more predictable and fares are integrated, ridership will go up.

 

[Neutrino]

Right now the UPX is RER without the electrification and people aren't using it. People will be saying that if this is what RER ends up being then we don't want it.

Ridership is about 10k a day which is decent and as @MisterF said, fare integration will further increase it. However, Metrolinx, TTC and 905 transit providers need to get cracking on last mile station access. It doesn't matter how frequently trains arrive if there's nowhere to park and the local bus comes once in a blue moon.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Ridership is about 10k a day which is decent and as @MisterF said, fare integration will further increase it. However, Metrolinx, TTC and 905 transit providers need to get cracking on last mile station access. It doesn't matter how frequently trains arrive if there's nowhere to park and the local bus comes once in a blue moon.

Per weekday, it's even higher. It's around 15,000 if I'm not mistaken. Divided by 4, each station would have an average of 3,750 passengers per day. That's higher than 3 RT stations and Bessarion Station in its current form. Without electrification and fare integration, it already makes complete fiscal sense.

 

[CITY_LOVER]

Hi, does anyone have an estimate on how much it would cost to include a Lawrence East subway station to the proposed $3.35B Scarborough subway extension?

 

[BurlOak]

Hi, does anyone have an estimate on how much it would cost to include a Lawrence East subway station to the proposed $3.35B Scarborough subway extension?

I thought I saw an estimate of $300M - and I would guess it may be a bit higher by the time construction happens. The problem is, the route (horizontal) and vertical alignment they chose means that this station would be very deep, and thus very expensive. The route was chosen for 2 reasons. 1) to get a station at STC, 2) to minimize disruption to traffic. When "value engineering" was done on this, these remained the starting points.
If the goals were to; 1) get a station at STC, 2) reduce costs, 3) get a station at Sheppard, and 3) get intermediate stations at Lawrence (and maybe even Eglinton/Brimley), then the solution may be completely different (i.e. cut-and-cover, maybe along Midland, etc.) with additional stations costing $100-150M.

 

[W. K. Lis]

With Doug Ford in the "driver's seat", we should expect to see not a "war on the car", but a "war on public transit". Hopefully not.

 

[MisterF]

Ridership is about 10k a day which is decent and as @MisterF said, fare integration will further increase it. However, Metrolinx, TTC and 905 transit providers need to get cracking on last mile station access. It doesn't matter how frequently trains arrive if there's nowhere to park and the local bus comes once in a blue moon.

I have a feeling that when trains are running frequently at regular intervals all day, it will make more sense for people to take the bus who would never do it now. I could see a lot of bus routes having frequencies and schedules that match the trains. Assuming of course that Doug Ford doesn't go and cancel everything.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Here's a simple question. How many of you would vote PC if Doug Ford promised to make the DRL a priority and start construction in this first term?

I would give him a chance, if a very specific promise on that matter was made.

Despite my distaste of his brother's term as Mayor, and despite Doug himself being my least favored PC leadership candidate.

I'd give him a chance, if and only if he put forward a credible plan outlining exactly how he plans to pay for it. HIs word alone isn't worth anything to me.

Ford announced last week that he wants to scrap the people's promise magazine-style platform into a six point platform. So I'm not expecting a lot of detail in whatever he promises. Apparently some people believe management of a $150 Billion budget and Canada's largest economy can be watered down to a few bullet points.

 

[cplchanb]

I'd give him a chance, if and only if he put forward a credible plan outlining exactly how he plans to pay for it. HIs word alone isn't worth anything to me.

Ford announced last week that he wants to scrap the people's promise magazine-style platform into a six point platform. So I'm not expecting a lot of detail in whatever he promises.

I wouldn't
He will put drl at the top at the expense of other projects like ect east and west rer and other lrt projects that are crucial for the prosperity of the entire region. It's not just subways subways subways for ttc

 

[steveintoronto]

^^^Dougie's stance on transit is still a huge enigma. Anything I can find of his stance as Cnclr was anti-transit. Some claim he has made some positions clear on his transit stance. I can't find any, and if anyone else does, please link.

Some reputable posters have claimed: (gist) "905 is pro-transit, and that's his electoral strength". Phhhh...his strength is what appeals to most suburbanites: Cars.

Please, someone, prove me wrong with a linked and/or referenced quote.

 

[kEiThZ]

Electrification is not going to get any cheaper and if we delay now, in 20 or 30 years when the topic is brought up again the price will have jumped again

You are thinking too much like a transit advocate and not enough like a politician.

Politicians don't care about much that happens beyond the term they are running for. Let alone 2-3 decades from now.

It's why planning should be left to bureaucrats who will still be working there decades later.

First, Ford has to differentiate his transit platform from that of Wynne's.

No he doesn't. He won't promise squat. He'll simply claim she can't deliver. The best differentiator against Wynne is her track record. Ford will use the following line or some variation thereof in the 905: "What has she done for you?" That is how you fight anti-incumbent election.

And I get that people will here will say, "Look at xyz GO project." The problem for the Liberals is that all the GO stuff has not materially changed service for the average commuter enough. They still have to struggle to find parking at a GO lot in some places. They still have crowded GO trains. They still have no TTC integration. And they have limited hourly or semi-hourly service. And unfortunately, for the Liberals, after being in power for 15 years, nobody is going to believe that they'll suddenly deliver in their next term. (Even if we are on the cusp of RER.)

Some of you really need to listen more to what your family and friends say. You may think the average voter is an idiot. But he/she has exactly the same amount of voting power as you do.

I'm not yet sure if Ford is going to talk about transit. But if he is, I predict this is the tack he takes. They beauty about an anti-incumbent election is that you can virtually nullify every promise the incumbent makes by pointing out how little they've done on the file to date. You can even offer less and still sound more credible. "I'm promising exactly what I'm going to deliver."