[micheal_can]

Ancedotally - with hundreds of family and friends in Quebec, I've heard of a lot of people in Quebec going to Queens (or Toronto, Waterloo, Carlton, Ottawa, etc.). But not once have I ever heard of anyone from there going to Trent. Or Sir Sandford Fleming (which I seem to hear about as equal amount from people in this neck of the woods, and is larger).

Is that a feature or a bug? Are they not going because the transportation to it is the problem?

 

[Urban Sky]

Build the line to succeed, to foster growth, and to compete and service existing transportation networks. Building a line from Ottawa to Toronto through Peterborough and ignoring the balance of the urban 401 core of Ontario is a mistake.

No, the mistake is to insist that the entire end state of the future Canadian HSR network has to be built in a single initial project, as if that’s how any other country with a significant HSR network built its lines. Even Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto overstretches the capabilities the North American rail infrastructure construction industry has available, especially considering the massive pipeline of projects Metrolinx itself entertains…

 

[guavadelic]

Reece Martin was a guest on Mike Moffatt's Missing Middle Podcast to discuss the high speed rail project.

 

[ownthesky]

Reece Martin was a guest on Mike Moffatt's Missing Middle Podcast to discuss the high speed rail project.

I felt Reece was a little loose with his language to try to tie a signed contract for a 5 year design phase to the “another Canadian HSR study” meme.

What’s interesting about CAHSR, and something that isn’t mentioned and I’d argue is very applicable to this criticism, is that they desperately rushed headfirst into the project because California was on a tight political timeline to secure federal grants. That opened them up to legal obstacles, political pork barreling, and graft that they were unprepared for; they had no choice but to throw money at these problems like a t-shirt cannon at a Raptors game.

 

[CapitalSeven]

A lot of good points in the video about our approach to over-studying and over-paying for infrastructure. What I am equally afraid of is this thing collapsing into another culture war. Now that it's fully HSR, the impacts on rural areas are potentially greater (land requirements, grade separations etc.) while there are no direct benefits (Tweed, Sharbot Lake, Perth forget about it). Rural mayors and residents see all pain no gain and show up to say "We don't want it." The project is paralyzed at the design stage, populist politicians turn on it because it doesn't serve small communities or even suburbanites, and soon it's an urban-rural conflict in which we start talking about the Laurentian Elite and their personal luxury train. Maybe the shock of the USA turning into a kleptocryptotechbropseudofascist kakistocracy before our eyes gets us around this and maybe it doesn't.

 

[generalcanada]

I felt Reece was a little loose with his language to try to tie a signed contract for a 5 year design phase to the “another Canadian HSR study” meme.

What’s interesting about CAHSR, and something that isn’t mentioned and I’d argue is very applicable to this criticism, is that they desperately rushed headfirst into the project because California was on a tight political timeline to secure federal grants. That opened them up to legal obstacles, political pork barreling, and graft that they were unprepared for; they had no choice but to throw money at these problems like a t-shirt cannon at a Raptors game.

Yea "design and development" is completely different than a study.
the environmental approvals do take a long time, we have been talking about generic lines on a map, but yet to talk about actual specifics like detailed design

 

[micheal_can]

Reece Martin was a guest on Mike Moffatt's Missing Middle Podcast to discuss the high speed rail project.

I swear he sounds like some on here. I have had a hard time listening to his videos, especially the ones about networks I know he has not been on that I have. For that reason, I tend not to pay much attention to what he thinks.

 

[guavadelic]

I felt Reece was a little loose with his language to try to tie a signed contract for a 5 year design phase to the “another Canadian HSR study” meme.

What’s interesting about CAHSR, and something that isn’t mentioned and I’d argue is very applicable to this criticism, is that they desperately rushed headfirst into the project because California was on a tight political timeline to secure federal grants. That opened them up to legal obstacles, political pork barreling, and graft that they were unprepared for; they had no choice but to throw money at these problems like a t-shirt cannon at a Raptors game.

Reece has been consistently bashing this project online so wasn't surprising to see him push the "just another study" narrative.

Also, the main culprit for escalating costs in big projects here has been rushing to construction too early before any significant design work being done. So we actually WANT them to take sufficient amount of time on the early works before shovels are in the ground. The Feds main mistake was not starting this process sooner.

 

[Mihairokov]

Reece has been consistently bashing this project online so wasn't surprising to see him push the "just another study" narrative.

All respect to Reece but it seems easy to telegraph the course he's taking. Big-time nerd on a specific topic -> get a modest following -> attention goes to their head and warps their view of new and upcoming projects as they get more wrapped up in exposure and impression of themselves rather than focusing on details of what they're speaking about and thinking critically about them. If specific speaking point and views get him support and views he's going to lean into them, and unfortunately the terminally-online world is more negative than positive on these sorts of things. Perhaps he'll prove me wrong.

Again, I understand why people look at this project negatively, but that negative mindset will only serve to further our delay in building projects such as these which we sorely need.

 

[6ixGod]

RM was fine when he was simply talking about projects and giving them attention…maybe he’d add in a little of his own opinion and for the most part I would agree with it (seemed reasonable).

Towards the end (last two years) his videos have transitioned to “this is what I think should happen” coupled in with the typical clickbait thumbnail and title. Most YouTube content creators fall into this trap to be honest. They are looking to monetize so the intent is to grab as much attention as possible.

I sort of lost interest after that.

 

[ownthesky]

Reece Martin was a guest on Mike Moffatt's Missing Middle Podcast to discuss the high speed rail project.

The other thing I forgot to add is that he brought up the simplified Ottawa-Montreal line again that he pushed with Paige Saunders two years ago as an alternative, which I don’t think is a totally unreasonable idea, but who’s to say that Alto doesn’t do just that? Build out a stage 1 in a relatively simple section (barring the Mont Royal problem) akin to how CAHSR is getting the easy Central Valley section done as their initial operating segment.

 

[Urban Sky]

The other thing I forgot to add is that he brought up the simplified Ottawa-Montreal line again that he pushed with Paige Saunders two years ago as an alternative, which I don’t think is a totally unreasonable idea, but who’s to say that Alto doesn’t do just that? Build out a stage 1 in a relatively simple section (barring the Mont Royal problem) akin to how CAHSR is getting the easy Central Valley section done as their initial operating segment.

If their plan was to actually build and open Phase 1 (almost definitely: Montreal-Ottawa) relatively early and then to spend much more time on the tougher nut (Ottawa-Toronto) and (even later) the impossible one (Montreal-Quebec) to crack, I could take ALTO seriously, but instead, they plan construction of the three segments to start only 1 year apart from each other and operations to start only 2 years apart:

Source: Groups.io

There are only 3 explanations as to why ALTO claims that such a timeline is anything else than completely fanciful and doomed to fail - and I don't know which one (they are too incompetent to know better, they haven’t told the government yet, or the government decided to keep the illusion against better knowledge) is the least troubling.

Anyways, if this project is going to get built and look anything remotely like what is currently promised to us, we will have nobody else than King Donald I. to thank, as without him, the project would have been dramatically curtailed by the (until a month ago: near-certain) change of government before the end of this year…

 

[nfitz]

Is there any indication when they take over the existing services? 2039? But 2031 is perfectly feasible. Heck, 2025 is perfectly feasible ...

 

[Urban Sky]

Is there any indication when they take over the existing services? 2039? But 2031 is perfectly feasible. Heck, 2025 is perfectly feasible ...

As long as the “Co-development Phase” has not concluded with a “go-ahead” decision (in 5 or so years), it will remain “business as usual” for VIA and its current Corridor and non-Corridor operations…

 

[rbt]

If their plan was to actually to build and open Phase 1 (almost definitely: Montreal-Ottawa) relatively early and then to spend much more time on the tougher nut (Ottawa-Toronto) and (even later) the impossible one (Montreal-Quebec) to crack, I could take ALTO seriously, but instead, they plan construction of the three segments to start only 1 year apart from each other and operations to start only 2 years apart:
View attachment 634741
Source: Groups.io

There are only 3 explanations as to why ALTO claims such a timeline is anything else than completely fanciful and doomed to fail - and I don't know which one (they are too incompetent to know better, they haven’t told the government yet, or the government decided together keep the illusion against better knowledge) is the least troubling.

Anyways, if this project is going to get built and look anything remotely what is currently promised to us, we will have nobody but King Donald I. to thank, as without him, the project would have been dramatically curtailed by the (until a month ago: near-certain) change of government before the end of this year…

Ran that image through OCR so I could read it. Here's a copy for others:


Annex A - A Network Approach Implementation Timeline

The Corporation has adopted a network approach for delivering the Toronto-Québec City Rapid Train, implementing it in different phases. This approach ensures a systematic and efficient rollout, allowing for adjustments and improvements at each stage to provide early benefits to Canadians. The implementation process is divided into four key steps:

1. Network Development: This initial phase involves planning, design, and stakeholder engagement. It includes securing necessary regulatory approvals, conducting environmental assessments, and finalizing the project design.

2. Construction Periods: Following the network development phase, construction begins. This step involves building the necessary infrastructure, including tracks, stations, rolling stock and related facilities. The construction period is staggered across phases to manage resources effectively, improve efficiencies and minimize disruptions.

3. Testing and Commissioning: Once construction is complete, each phase undergoes rigorous testing and commissioning to ensure that all systems are operational and meet safety standards.

4. Network Operations: Finally, the Rapid Train service enters operations. This long-term phase focuses on maintaining high service standards, optimizing operations, and expanding capacity as needed. Continuous monitoring and improvements ensure the service meets evolving demands.

A detailed description of the project timeline by distinct phases is provided in the table below.

Table A: Project Timeline by Phase

	PHASE 1		PHASE 2		PHASE 3
	START DATE	# OF YEARS	START DATE	# OF YEARS	START DATE	# OF YEARS
NETWORK DEVELOPMENT	2025	5-6	2026	5-6	2027	5-6
CONSTRUCTION PERIODS	2031	6.5	2032	7	2033	7.5
TESTING AND COMMISSIONING	2037	1-2	2039	1-2	2041	1-2
OPERATIONS	2039	40	2041	44	2043	42