[dt_toronto_geek]

It certainly helps when you're a tourist and you want to do some gay bar hopping. What is wrong with a few festive flags? A bit of colour never hurt anyone. I love seeing gay flags in a gay village. It just adds something to the atmosphere, especially at Pride.

More Canadian flags around town would sure be a great thing too.

 

[cdr108]

Do you think that gay institutions should still be waving their flag and organising parades long after homophobia has been eradicated (not that it has, not even close, just hypothetically)? Why/why not?

couldn't the same question be posed by replacing gay with italian/greek/irish/jewish/etc ?!?

those same groups have flags waving in little italy/greek town/etc.; and annual parades are held too ...

 

[DTowner]

If it wasn't 'uncommon' for a man to dress with girl's clothes those same clothes would be marketed as 'men' clothes by stores - as there'd be a market to be exploited.

This would involve a lengthy women's-studies-programme-type discussion about fashion, heterosexuality and the media, and heterosexual gender codes that are drilled into us since birth.

Do you think that gay institutions should still be waving their flag and organising parades long after homophobia has been eradicated (not that it has, not even close, just hypothetically)? Why/why not?

It wouldn't be a question of should or shouldn't. It would naturally evolve into something else. Look at 'feminism'. A lot of women would say they 'hate' feminists (to these women I have nothing to say), or don't know anything about feminism — and yet the don't seem to mind having the right to vote, the right to their own bodies, the right to own property, the right to demand equal pay for equal work, etc. Same goes with gay rights activism. When homosexuality and the rights of gay people aren't an issue anymore (accepted, no big deal, etc) then you'll find that gay activism will 'decrease'. The irony of feminist groups, gay rights groups, black rights groups, etc, is that the main purpose of them is that one day they will no longer be neccessary. Whether this is good for the gay community or bad can be debated, but it's already happening as more and more gays (especially the younger ones) aren't going to Church St and are venturing further out.

Yes. Which couldn't be more different than the 'black' example given by the other forum member

My point with that was that everyone is raised to be straight and we live in a straight world. But, it isn't the only reality. There is gay culture — there is a gay reality that goes outside the need to rebel out of anger and frustration over years of persecution. Even if being gay was truly no big deal and homophobia was magically eradicated, there would still be men dressing as women, there would still be flamboyant men and really butch women — the mannerisms, the behaviourism, etc, would still exist. Because that is part of the gay reality (even if some of the 'straight-acting' gays wish to deny it).

I'm done. Great discussion. x

 

[RC8]

couldn't the same question be posed by replacing gay with italian/greek/irish/jewish/etc ?!?

those same groups have flags waving in little italy/greek town/etc.; and annual parades are held too ...

It could be and it should be posed.

That said it's 2 different things altogether.

When I honour my heritage I honour my family traditions, my grandparents, my parents, and the culture I grew up with. Greeks, Italians, Chinese, etc. all do this. It's also a place where people come looking for things that only these groups can offer.

A gay neighbourhood honours someone's current sexual orientation and the culture that has formed around that sexual orientation and various others. Most of the people there are looking for a good time with similar-minded people. Both are valid, and it makes all the sense in the world that both types exist, but they really are not the same type of thing.

Regardless,

DTowner:
I must disagree with your 'straight acting'' comment, and I personally can't stand feminists (they are as bad as creationists when it comes to discussing anything), heheh. But apart from that I find your post really insightful.

Thanks for taking the time to address each point.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I was in the Village the other day and noticed a few of the things that have been discussed here, including the partitioning of Zeldas, the (temporary?) closing of the Crepe place (which says it's under renos), the closing of Ysfesis, the non-opening of Straight, and those blasted sidewalk plaques the BIA installed.... You're right -- they're goddamn slippery as hell !!!

I don't think that the Church Street Village BIA is responsible for these things, they can be found all along Wellesley Street from Jarvis to Yonge Street. So be careful along this area when it snows, or rains!

It looks like there was a good turnout last night at the 519 Community Centre re: recent problems with violence & slushing in the Church-Wellesley Village

 

[JasonParis]

Gladamen's Den has closed due to financial issues. The Village's presence on Yonge Street is now down to just the barely alive Glad Day Bookshop.

 

[threnody]

Don't forget Remmington's.

 

[JasonParis]

I didn't, just didn't really consider it within Church & Wellesley's orbit.

Also of note, "gay" areas of London, UK are also reporting more homophobic incidents, so Toronto may not be alone here...
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23922083-huge-rise-in-anti-gay-attacks-sparks-call-to-fight-hate-crime.do

 

[KLAUS]

Don't forget Remmington's.

And Zelda's.

 

[OttoSchloss]

In many ways I feel gay people may suffer because of the 'in your face' approach some homosexual-rights leaders and the media have chosen to adopt regarding their sexuality. Flying flags and dressing up in highly abnormal (see uncommon) ways. If heterosexual fetishists adopted a similar approach I think they'd have to deal with enormous amounts of bullying and discrimination. Idiots get a kick out of attacking harmless distinctive minorities with whom they can't relate.

I come from a country where you can get a beating for wearing the wrong football jersey in the wrong neighbourhood, so I can't help but wonder.

Maybe it has nothing to do with it at all. I don't have a clue what violent perpetrators of hate crimes would look or think like... I'm applying high-school type bullying logics here.

How normal is it to see straight couples hanging out at Church's cafes and such?

I have to say, thank God for people who let their freak flags fly. The issue isn't their "difference", the real issue is that somehow we've all become so tragically "normal".

Acceptance for gay people doesn't mean capitulation and becoming interchangeable with heterosexuals.

 

[JasonParis]

And Zelda's.

Duly noted!

 

[deerparker]

Noticed an event listing today for Alto at 582 Church Street - looks like Voglie has been reinvented?

 

[DC83]

Advisory Panel offers sweeping 133 recommendations to Pride Toronto

After months of meetings, surveys, debate and mudslinging, 150 people streamed into the 519 Church Street Community Centre to hear the Community Advisory Panel’s report and recommendations.

The Community Advisory Panel (CAP) report is 232 pages and contains 133 recommendations.

The sweeping recommendations cover everything from finances to suggestions about entertainment. A significant portion of the report is dedicated to repairing rifts between Pride Toronto (PT), the trans community and people of colour.

The first recommendation is that "Pride Toronto should be saved and its programming considerably downsized."

As the early recommendations were read aloud, some points -- including a recommendation that PT apologize for its conduct -- were greeted with rousing applause.

Among CAP recommendations is a list of criteria for determining which groups should be allowed into the Parade. Queer and non-groups will both be allowed to march, but all participants must prominently display pro-gay or trans messages, if the recommendations are adopted.

About 10 of the 232 pages of the report deal with Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA). The recommendations stop short of saying whether or not QuAIA ought to be allowed to march.

Instead, CAP recommends the creation of an adjudication process which would determine whether controversial groups should be allowed to march. It would only be triggered in the event of a complaint.

"There's a lot of grey area here, and we know it," admits Brent Hawkes, CAP chair.

CAP also recommends that PT devote the bulk of its entertainment programming to acts that are from Toronto and are members of the gay or trans community.

Before the meeting, Francisco Alverez, chair of the Pride Toronto board of directors, told Xtra that the board would try to implement as many of the suggestions as possible. He said some were simply not practical, but did not elaborate before the meeting began.

Read the recommendations here...

Source

 

[DC83]

I have a recommendation: Spread the Wealth! How bout giving Queer West (West Queen West/Parkdale) it's own mini street party?

 

[androiduk]

Not exactly the village but close by. This is the old Beaver Gas Station on Wellesley.

Application: Demolition Folder (DM) Status: Under Review

Location: 159 WELLESLEY ST E
TORONTO ON

Ward 27: Toronto Centre-Rosedale

Application#: 11 126835 DEM 00 DM Accepted Date: Feb 15, 2011

Project: Multiple Use/Non Residential Demolition

Description: permit to demolish existing gas station structure and canopys.