[vic]

Don't think Ford would go for a bikeway, it would take away lanes of traffic you know.

Ha!!

Most of the Scarborough hydro corridors are green space with bike paths, so it is not an outlandish suggestion.

Definitely. Just wonder if anyone would be willing to pay for conversion and maintenance of elevated structures, tunnel, etc.

I'm sure someone could even find an interesting use for the stations.

 

[nfitz]

I don't want to pick a fight with somebody as reasonable and well-informed as you. But what the heck does this mean? The forecast ridership can be handled by LRT, and LRT is cheaper and gets completed faster. So subway CANNOT be justified by ridership, in spite of whatever rule of thumb you're using to state otherwise.

The ridership forecast for the LRT can be handled by LRT. And as could the subway ridership for an expansion to Scarborough Centre, without the construction of either the Eglinton line or the Sheppard East line. However the recent subway ridership estimate for an extension of the subway PAST Scarborough Centre to Sheppard/McCowan of up to 14,000 people per direction per hour is pushing the limits of LRT.

 

[nfitz]

A very short stretch of the Bloor-Danforth line between Old Mill and Jane is in the former city of York.

LOL. I never knew that before. Still, Jane station (the entrance at least) was in Toronto and Old Mill was in Etobicoke.

It's kind of odd that I can't find pre-amalgamation boundaries easily on-line (at least on a scale that you can see streets), and I have to pull out my old 1998 MapArt road atlas!

 

[TOareaFan]

Apparantly Minister Murray has announced the province will pay $1.4B for the subway (2/3 of the cost)....in one announcement he has rendered years of Metrolinx work/planning/study irrelevant....no matter what you think of the subway, it was not part of the Big Move and it is now 1) the preferred option, 2) On a high priority (it is all anyone is talking about) and, seemingly, 3) fundable without any of the needed revenue tools.

forget planning....politicking is how transit gets built

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

TOareafan:

That's what happens when one isn't willing to pay for it out of their own pockets. On the other hand, the province has announced they will fund 2/3 of the cost at 1.4B not 1.8B demanded by council. There is more politics yet.

AoD

 

[scar_resident]

Apparantly Minister Murray has announced the province will pay $1.4B for the subway (2/3 of the cost)....in one announcement he has rendered years of Metrolinx work/planning/study irrelevant....no matter what you think of the subway, it was not part of the Big Move and it is now 1) the preferred option, 2) On a high priority (it is all anyone is talking about) and, seemingly, 3) fundable without any of the needed revenue tools.

forget planning....politicking is how transit gets built

By-election in Scarborough riding + timing of subway vote 3 weeks before election = subway funding.

 

[TOareaFan]

By-election in Scarborough riding + timing of subway vote 3 weeks before election = subway funding.

Oh, yeah, I get it....but what is the point of all the money spent on setting up a "non-political" central planning agency for transit and then the millions producing reports/plans like the big move....if, in reality, transit decisions are going to be made because there is a by-election in a riding that vocally wants something that is not in that plan.

If, in reality, we are going to plan/fund/build transit the old fashioned way....we should just save the money and not pretend we have reformed our system into a logical well thought out non-political one.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Adrian Morrow ‏@AdrianMorrow 1m
Wow. @Glen4ONT is getting testy. Someone asks about the $1.8 bn Ford wanted. His response: "I'm in charge here!" #onpoli

Oops. Like honestly, just what skin is the city bringing to the table if it is willing to kill this extension by not coming to the table with more than the paltry amount they're offering?

AoD

 

[scar_resident]

Oh, yeah, I get it....but what is the point of all the money spent on setting up a "non-political" central planning agency for transit and then the millions producing reports/plans like the big move....if, in reality, transit decisions are going to be made because there is a by-election in a riding that vocally wants something that is not in that plan.

If, in reality, we are going to plan/fund/build transit the old fashioned way....we should just save the money and not pretend we have reformed our system into a logical well thought out non-political one.

Refer to Oakville and Mississauga gas plants. It's politics, work the system to get voters what they want, get re-elected. Many high-ups knew this would be the most likely outcome. 3 months ago at a TTC meeting Andy and Chris were so vague about details on SRT plans during the shutdown for replacement, you could tell they didn't think it was going to happen so why bother planning.

 

[Tulse]

By plain reading of yesterday's motion, the subway is dead. Then again, by the plain reading of the original Metrolinx agreement, we were supposed to have decided on an LRT, so I suppose in the exciting world of Toronto city council, nothing is ever certain.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tulse:

I highly, highly doubt that. It's all posturing at this point.

scar_resident:

Of course it is politics - but that's a rather poor justification for making decisions such as these on the basis of political expediency alone - we've been through that road, and where we are right now speaks to that.

AoD

 

[scar_resident]

Tulse:

I highly, highly doubt that. It's all posturing at this point.

scar_resident:

Of course it is politics - but that's a rather poor justification for making decisions such as these on the basis of political expediency alone - we've been through that road, and where we are right now speaks to that.

AoD

So when MoveOntario 2020 was announced 3 months before a general election (which provided the funding for Transity City, then yanked "delayed" by the province after the election) that did not influence what should have been proper transit planning?

With the provincial Liberals in a minority government situation and the Feds impending election in 2 years you can expect to see more of the same. The Gas Tax funding for transit is also coming up for review by the next federal election. You can expect city council will be front and centre to demand more $$.

 

[Tulse]

I don't know if I can blame Murray much. The province doesn't want to be seen thwarting the will of city council, since it is supposedly a Metrolinx partner. However, by sticking to the $1.4 billion figure established by Metrolinx earlier, he has essentially put a gun to Ford's head. I think this is a reasonably deft move on his part, as it essentially says to Toronto that it can break the original agreement with Metrolinx, but not without penalty.

That said, I could understand if Metrolinx staff felt like they were merely pawns.

 

[rbt]

I don't think the province will bring the wanted $400M to the table, directly at least. Wynne is having a hard time showing she isn't a Toronto Premier as it is.

The province would, however, allow Toronto to take that $400M from new Metrolinx revenue tools. That 7% cut of $1.5B/year would do it pretty quickly.


The feds? This is where we find out just how close Ford and Flaherity are. They worked with Lastman/Miller on Toronto Waterfront and Spadina; so Ford should be able to do something here too.

 

[Electrify]

How much was the province willing to spend on the LRT option again?