[bobbob911]

How much was the province willing to spend on the LRT option again?

$1.4B, plus $400M to upgrade Kennedy station for LRT. That $400M is now assigned to the Eglinton Crosstown which will end at Kennedy as well.

 

[TOareaFan]

The province would, however, allow Toronto to take that $400M from new Metrolinx revenue tools. That 7% cut of $1.5B/year would do it pretty quickly.

So, essentially, prioritizing an item that was not in Metrolinx' plan in the first place?

Which priority item (as defined by Metrolinx) would have to fall down the ladder? Do the other municipal partners of Metrolinx get a say in this?

Man, I wish my MPP had resigned!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

TOareafan:

Actually, we should have an election every year! Kind of like Italy (the paragon of good politics)

AoD

 

[scar_resident]

The city, Metrolinx and the TTC agreed last year that the SRT would be converted to an LRT with $1.8 billion in provincial funding by 2020. This project was on the funded project list. They are just confirming they will switch the funding to the subway build instead of revoking it as threatened by CEO of Metrolinx.

 

[drum118]

If we were like Italy, nothing would get done and the past few months has shown this already.

Expect to see the death noticed by August for the subway plan, as I am sure the Feds will not kick in the 50-75% of the extra cost that is needed for the subway.

Hello there LRT and nice to see you again. Lets hope Metrolinx can get you under construction in 2014 starting with the new extension. This will help to stop anymore delay to this project.

 

[nfitz]

The city, Metrolinx and the TTC agreed last year that the SRT would be converted to an LRT with $1.8 billion in provincial funding by 2020. This project was on the funded project list. They are just confirming they will switch the funding to the subway build instead of revoking it as threatened by CEO of Metrolinx.

They are only confirming transferring $1.4 billion. The remaining $0.4 billion is required to the underground section of the Eglinton Line from west of Kennedy Road to Kennedy station, and the new underground platform ... and perhaps to cover the costs already sunk into the SRT.

As yesterday's motion only authorized the City Manager to renegotiate the master agreement with Metrolinx IF the province provides $1.8 billion, presumably the province has now received it's go ahead to continue with tendering the SRT and the new yard.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

drum118:

Well, does the city want the subway bad enough to cough up the cash needed? I think Scarborough and the rest of the city need to answer that one. Municipalities contributed 1/3 of the Spadina extension - are there any overriding reasons why the city can't do so now, other than political expediency?

AoD

 

[bobbob911]

drum118:

Well, does the city want the subway bad enough to cough up the cash needed? I think Scarborough and the rest of the city need to answer that one.
AoD

It would require a new council vote - one that is likely to fail. Although I would love to see what tax increase Rob Ford would pitch to cover it....

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

bobbob911:

But I am curious as to why subways are needed if someone else is paying for it - but not needed nor wanted if the advocate has to pay for it. There is a good case to be made for the subway even if the city has to pay its' share - the fact is that the mayor and councillors (by extension, the electorate) are willing to lead by their mouths and not by their wallet speaks plenty.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Well, does the city want the subway bad enough to cough up the cash needed? I think Scarborough and the rest of the city need to answer that one. Municipalities contributed 1/3 of the Spadina extension - are there any overriding reasons why the city can't do so now, other than political expediency?

Not only is there no overriding reasons why the city can't do it now, the proposed taxation increase passed yesterday covered the contingency of no Federal funding AND only $1.395 billion from the province.

If you look at Table 1 and 2 of the City Manager's report - http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-60240.pdf ranged from 1.1% if the province provided $1.8 billion and federal funding of $418 million could be found, to 2.4% if the the province only provided $1.4 billion and there was no federal funding.

If you look at the increase provided for in the final motion the words used are "Committing to a property tax increase over three years, dedicated to funding a Scarborough Subway, in an amount between 1.1% and 2.4% "

So despite all the words about needing $1.8 billion provincial and at least $400 million federal funding, the city has already passed the taxation measures required if they only receive the $1.4 billion they've already been promised.

 

[k10ery]

$1.4B, plus $400M to upgrade Kennedy station for LRT. That $400M is now assigned to the Eglinton Crosstown which will end at Kennedy as well.

Actually, it was $1.48 billion, with $320 million for the Kennedy redo. But today Murray is saying $1.4 billion.

A minor difference, but it shows how all this is about political grandstanding rather than issues of substance.

 

[Tulse]

the proposed taxation increase passed yesterday covered the contingency of no Federal funding AND only $1.395 billion from the province.

No, it didn't -- what was actually passed (as opposed to in the City Manager report) was

Committing to a property tax increase over three years, dedicated to funding a Scarborough Subway, in an amount of 1.1%

This is amended from Ford's original motion, and the point of the amendment was to lock in that that the project is dependent on $1.8 billion in provincial funding.

 

[nfitz]

Actually, it was $1.48 billion, with $320 million for the Kennedy redo. But today Murray is saying $1.4 billion.

And $85 million sunk costs. The province only was putting $1.395 million on the table, and today they said $1.4 billion.

 

[nfitz]

No, it didn't -- what was actually passed (as opposed to in the City Manager report) was

Committing to a property tax increase over three years, dedicated to funding a Scarborough Subway, in an amount of 1.1%

This is amended from Ford's original motion, and the point of the amendment was to lock in that that the project is dependent on $1.8 billion in provincial funding.

Yes, that's what I was looking at. What you quoted was from Mihevc's Motion 4, amending Ford's Motion 1, passed at 2:56 pm. I don't think you've considered Fletcher's Motion 12 passed at 2:51 pm. Oh wait ... oh, yes, I think you are correct. So not only did Joe Mihevc manage to kill this, but both Ford's and Stintz supported the death.

On with the SRT then!

 

[k10ery]

And $85 million sunk costs. The province only was putting $1.395 million on the table, and today they said $1.4 billion.

Well that's one story the province is telling. The other, that Murray is telling today, is that the province will only pay 2/3 of the cost, leaving the rest to the feds. Political posturing.

Murray, by the way, seems to be the biggest moron around in this fiasco. (I include Ford and Stintz in this.) He should really to STFU and delete his twitter account. This became apparent last week when he went on a "fact finding" mission to Scarborough, and he tweeted his deep thoughts about urban planning. As if the real experts didn't know all that already. A Minister's job is to sit in an office and listen to experts, then communicate the right decision to the people.

Sorry, needed to vent