TOareaFan
Superstar
But, in the case of Scarborough it actually suggests that LRTs would have been the preferred solution. Converting Sheppard to LRT and the RT to LRT (and combined with the Sheppard LRT).
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But, in the case of Scarborough it actually suggests that LRTs would have been the preferred solution. Converting Sheppard to LRT and the RT to LRT (and combined with the Sheppard LRT).
innsertnamehere
Superstar
It suggests ALRT, the same tech the RT currently uses. (and vancouver) it also suggests cancelling Finch in exchange for a BRT, and changing the Crosstown to ALRT as well. there are political and other external influences that will prevent all but maybe Sheppard and Finch cancellations, but that is what it suggests.
It is also extremely critical of the Scarborough subway, so it doesn't really support "either side"
It is also extremely critical of the Scarborough subway, so it doesn't really support "either side"
Solid Snake
Active Member
My god, read again... The notion of LRT at grade or nothing is annoying. I'm supportive of the report. They are not saying that LRT doesn't work. They are saying that LRT should be grade separated with a few stops being remove. They point out that this would greatly reduce gridlock instead of just improving local service for existing customers. The province and the City acknowledge that gridlock is a big problem in the GTA. Transit City has merits but reducing gridlock is more important than Miller's urban vision of cute European areas (as stated in TTC 2007 report and this report)
Once True rapid transit covers efficiently Toronto than I will be the first to support Transit City lines on Wilson, Lawrence, Jane, Waterfront, wherever you want.
Again, we use Paris as an exemple but they build rapid Transit first, then they are using trams to feed it. We seriously lack Rapid Transit coverage in this city and this needs to be addressed first.
Now, all their saying is that the current form of Transit City is expensive and accomplishes very little. while using ALRT would attract more new riders, reduce gridlock. Did they ask for a Sheppard Subway? No. They said LRT but not using Transit City designs. Did you miss the part where I said I support their conclusion of retrofitting Sheppard subway to ALRT as long as it stays grade separated. Does that make me anti-LRT?
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
I'm not saying I don't agree, but what I am saying is that the justification for the LRTs is different than what the report is basing its study on.
superman
Active Member
This report basically summarizes what should have been the argument all along.
The debate shouldn't have been about light rail vs heavy rail, LRT vs Subway.
The debate should have been about whether we want rapid transit (subway, elevated, trenched light or heavy rail) on Sheppard and Eglinton East or whether we want local tram transit (streetcar, surface LRT). The Ford-McGuinty plan of having a full underground Eglinton with elevated Scarborough and a partially funded Sheppard extension to VP partially accomplishes that. Someone should have came in at that point and pointed out that we could have done cheaper with Skytrains or elevated transit, but instead people just reverted back to the easy Transit City version that doesn't help us bring rapid transit to the far ends of the city.
Forgotten
Active Member
Was that not the Stintz compromise that was rejected by the king and his court?
Solid Snake
Active Member
Nope,
Ford wanted Eglinton buried and merged with elevated LRT
Stinz wanted Eglinton (central) buried and at grade in the east, separated Eglinton from Scarborough LRT and extend Sheppard to Vic Park.
So frustrating that they were so close to compromise right down the middle
BurlOak
Senior Member
The key was the agreement that any savings from Eglinton would be used on Sheppard. Because of this, Stintz and the Province would rather spend the extra $2B on Eglinton rather than letting Ford use the money for Sheppard. Another example where it was more important to defeat Ford than to create good transit.
datamouse
Active Member
Here we go again
Councillor tries to reopen Scarborough subway debate
Councillor tries to reopen Scarborough subway debate
picard102
Senior Member
Wouldn't even be mad if the Province and the Feds just back away from any transit funding for Toronto thanks to this clown.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I wonder if that has anything to do with that report released yesterday
SJD_Toronto
Active Member
I like Josh Matlow a lot and I think he is a pretty impressive city councillor for the most part, but this just ticks me off. It's obvious to me Matlow wants to wait until a new council has been elected as he is probably hoping someone who is running for mayor (Like David Soknacki, who I think Matlow has unofficially endorsed) who favours the LRT instead the subway will be elected and will push to get the LRT plan going again. It wouldn't surprise me if Matlow wants to get a high profile job in the new council... say a job like TTC Chair.
All Matlow is doing at this point is making this Scarborough RT transit replacement plan messier. So many people slammed Karen Stintz for playing politics with pushing for a Bloor-Danforth extension, and yet Josh Matlow is now playing politics to reopen this plan once again. The Bloor-Danforth extension should happen. The Federal and Provincial governments have forked over cash for the subway extension. Let the property tax hike pay for the subway extension, I say. It will finally show that Toronto residents are, in fact, helping to expand the transit system. The RT will run doing the subway construction, the subway extension will be beneficial for the long run, Scarborough gets better rapid transit either way at the end of the day and the city can easily look at making the RT route a BRT route. Get on with this.
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salsa
Senior Member
If this falls apart and nothing gets build, the only idiots who deserved be blamed are Karen Stintz and Glen De Baeremaeker. The LRT would have happened if those two hadn't reopened the debate. They should be hanged by their necks for fucking up scarborough transit, all because of their political ambitions.
picard102
Senior Member
It seems like all of Transit City was a debacle before these people ever got ahold of it. Hang Miller and Giambrone.
SJD_Toronto
Active Member
The subway will get built. The province and the federal governments put up cash for a subway. Matlow is the one playing politics now. Also, I don't see how Karen Stintz and Glen De Baeremaeker have "fucked up" Scarborough transit. A subway extension, an LRT line along Sheppard East and a possible BRT line doesn't sound like a fuck up to me. If anyone fucked up anything on the transit file, it's Rob Ford's free subways promise. And I want to point out that many of the transit projects and decisions are politically driven. Look at the subway extension to Vaughan, the Sheppard Subway and Ford's so called transit plan. Even the DRL is politically driven to a degree. The DRL is needed and it is a recommended transit project, but councillors like Josh Matlow listen to his residents complain about the overcrowding on the Yonge subway line. Many of his residents use the Yonge line and so he wants to make his residents happy by pushing for a rapid transit line that is both needed and critical to making who he represents in his ward happy. Just like James Pasternak who always talks about getting the Sheppard West Subway finished for his residents. Everything in a municipality is politically driven whether we like it or not. De Baeremaeker wants to keep his job by making his residents happy and Stintz wants to lead council. Welcome to the world of politics. Welcome to a dirty game where everyone is a bad guy to someone.
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