BurlOak
Senior Member
Thats right. There was much more talk about the transfer.
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Thats right. There was much more talk about the transfer.
picard102
Senior Member
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
If he wasn't, they sure were quiet about it.
No one was against transit city until Ford came to office. At least publicly. Anyone saying otherwise is full of it.
Solid Snake
Active Member
Wrong, he's actually the one who merged Eglinton and Scarborough into one single line, eliminating the complaints
1-Transfer at Kennedy
2-Not enough underground station in Scarborough (eastern Eglinton being underground)
Stinz's problem was Sheppard subway extension's private sector financial scheme. She should have kept humoring him on his failed financial plan for Sheppard (who was doomed to fail) and stay on track with Scarborough-Eglinton line.
At next year's election, the burden of explaining why he didn't delivered Sheppard would have been his alone. Instead, he gets to blame council for it.
As for Transit city, wasn't the provincial cuts the main reason why the projects were further delayed?
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salsa
Senior Member
Ford wasn't the only person to oppose it, but he was the only person to unilaterally kill Transit City when he took office. The Sheppard LRT in particular was under construction until he killed it. By now it would have been completed several months ago. The plan has been reinstated by council and the only reason it didn't resume yet is thanks to the liberals and their damned foot-dragging, but ultimately it was Ford that caused this mess in the first place.
Solid Snake
Active Member
Playing devil's advocate here...
Don't get me wrong, I hate how political transit is in this province. Not even in Quebec transit is that much politicize. In the context of 2010, Ford ran his campaign on killing Transit city and won decisively. If people were that supportive of it, he would not have won. At the end of the day, the majority was against it and he did was he said he would, whether you like it or not and that's democracy
JayBeeGooner
Active Member
The SELRT would have opened on time. The Finch West and Scarborough LRT would been delayed, but we would be definitely riding SELRT by now.
JayBeeGooner
Active Member
Bullshit.
Ford was elected on a campaign of claiming there was "waste" at city hall. Not on a transit platform.
rbt
Senior Member
Not quite today, but pretty soon.
rbt
Senior Member
Ford was NOT elected by a majority. Not a majority of voters, not a majority of Torontonians, and not a majority of transit users. A plurality is not a majority.
Nor did he put forth a plan which was an achievable alternative. Ford voters were in favour of cutting taxes and building subways with private money.
Very few voted to kill transit transit improvements; they voted in favour of transit better than they were willing to spend on.
If the question was phrased: a) 30% bump in property taxes for Sheppard as a subway, or b) 0% bump in property taxes for Sheppard as LRT; I can tell you how many Ford voters would go. The offer of 0% bump for subway on Sheppard wasn't practical and was not delivered by Ford (private donations).
It's not hard to sell people a lie when they really want to believe. Many politicians are elected that way; voters are quite gullible.
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Solid Snake
Active Member
Democracy is not perfect but it is what it is. He won the election and ran on killing Transit City.
The Liberals got a minority government and Wynne is Premier although she still refuse to face an election and yet she wants transit taxes across the province. I don't see you complaining about it because she will deliver what you want. LRT that makes no sense on Sheppard and Finch and another one that is flawed on Eglinton. Christopher Hume agrees with Neptis conclusions on Transit City. He said "the conclusions are painful but appropriate" in regards of Transit City.
If a pro LRT Christopher Hume recognizes the flaws of Transit City even if he's always been bias towards that plan, why can't you?
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Check the subway maps thread, I have a solution to Hume problem.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Neither was Miller in 2003. What's your point? Ditto for virtually every provincial or federal governing party in the last few decades.
Get over it.
You don't get to claim that the winning candidate lacks legitimacy just because you don't like their platform. We had an election. A candidate won. And they get to pursue their vision.
As for voters being gullible....you know what Churchill said about democracy.... But it's quite simple. If you are going to tax that gullible lot, then you better have a system that gives them a voice and listens to their wishes.
I'm no fan of Ford. But questioning our democratic system and its principles because he won? Come on.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Right, because it's better for politicians to shut up instead of fight for what they want.
Smitherman favoured most of the already-approved Transit City projects, but he was definitely for a Bloor-Danforth extension:
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2010/05/28/smitherman_promises_new_subways.html
There never was an approved Scarborough-Eglinton line on track in the first place. All he had to do was put the MOU up for a vote in 2011, but Ford thought he could avoid Council forever and run transit like some third-world dictator.
It's disingenuous to blame Stintz for Ford's stupidity.
Christopher Hume's big problem with TC is that he believes the central portion of Eglinton should run in the middle of the street. So you might not want to put too much stock in his opinion.
salsa
Senior Member
Actually, it's better if they shut up. Let the real experts decide what's best for Toronto, based on evidence not votes.