[scarberiankhatru]

"The TTC really doesn’t want to convert the line."

You know what, Steve? The people of Scarborough don't want this, either. Shockingly, express/rocket bus service would do wonders for lots of people..."some bus lanes" would be nice.

 

[socialwoe]

The people of Scarborough don't want this, either. Shockingly, express/rocket bus service would do wonders for lots of people..."some bus lanes" would be nice.

:rollin
You don't want a subway link to the Scarborough Centre now, people of Scarborough my foot! As for those bus lanes don't be shocked if that's exactly what SRT becomes, a BRT route.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

^ You do realize that "converting the line" refers to streetcars, right? The SRT can't be converted into a subway.

Replacing the RT with buses might not be the worst thing in the world. If people get to the RT by bus, they can get to Kennedy station by bus...I do quite often to avoid the RT and travel times even without basics like bus lanes are often competitive with the RT. GO improvements coupled with express/rocket/BRT buses would have to handle the RT corridor during construction of whatever gets built, anyway, so we're forced to examine the bus option. Fortunately, Midland and Brimley are not heavily trafficked, a busway through the hydro corridor could meet up nicely with the Lawrence bus, express buses could take the 401, etc.

 

[samsonyuen]

From: www.insidetoronto.ca/to/s...carborough
___________
Brimley station considered for Scarborough RT
Plans need to be made now, local councillors say

DAVID NICKLE dnickle@insidetoronto.com
Feb. 28, 2007

When the Scarborough RT gets its makeover, it could be getting a new station at Brimley Road.
That was the will of Toronto Transit Commissioners Tuesday afternoon, when they voted to ask staff to study the feasibility of building a new RT station at Brimley Road between the Midland and Scarborough Centre stations.

The Brimley Station has been a long-standing request from the Scarborough Community Council, but in a report before the commission, staff said there is not currently a high enough demand to justify constructing a new station so close to the well-used Scarborough Centre station.

The TTC will be constructing a walkway from Brimley to the Scarborough Civic Centre station, for those few riders making their way in from Brimley.

But local councillors and commissioners Michael Thompson (Ward 37, Scarborough Centre) and Glenn De Baeremaeker (Ward 38, Scarborough Centre) argued that new developments coming on line in the area suggest that there will soon be significant demand for a station there.

"As it relates to Brimley Station, now that a developer has come forward to develop the property we need to look at that in a comprehensive way," said Thompson.

TTC transit planner Bill Dawson said the commission is aware of the developments at Progress Avenue and Brimley, but he said there's a difference between applications and completed developments.

"I guess from our point of view it's really a matter of timing - when these developments become real and how that timing deals with the construction of a station at Brimley," he said.

But De Baeremaeker argued that with the relatively imminent reconstruction of the aging RT line on the horizon, it makes sense to start planning now.

"If we don't include it as a part of the environmental assessment, we'll be sitting here saying 'You know, we've got to build this in 2015,'" said De Baeremaeker.

 

[M II A II R II K]

To make it worthwhile they could extend the RT on the other end of it, south of Kennedy to somewhere downtown. That would also eliminate a transfer. Particularly if it went express.

 

[roch5220]

To make it worthwhile they could extend the RT on the other end of it, south of Kennedy to somewhere downtown. That would also eliminate a transfer. Particularly if it went express.

That is a good idea, except one thing, I don't believe there would be enough vehicles to accomodate this. Hasn't Vancouver already said that they do not want to sell their excess? Basically, you would have to custom make your own vehicles as they are no longer in production (keeping in mind you are extending a line in a major way, using outdated techology). Pretty much, you would probably be having to upgrade the entire line to the new tech.

Which is basically the same as of having a redundant line that would cannibalize off the existing danforth line.

 

[officedweller]

Yeah, Vancouver's at capacity on the Expo Line and doesn't have any excess cars to spare.
But isn't the "redevelopment" of the SRT going to replace the MKIs with MKIIs? So it's just a question of buying more MKIIs if the line is lengthened.

*****

WRT an LRT network in Scarborough, the TTC report doesn't address the obvious solution for conversion of the SRT - dual mode LRT vehicles. That is, vehicles that would operate in automated mode on exclusive right-of-way and be switched to manual mode (or a driver jumps on board) on street level rights-of-way.

This was proposed for the Canada Line as an alternate proposal by the winning bidder (in an effort to appeal to the City of Richmond's desire to have the line be at street level rather than elevated). The cost of the vehicles was apparently prohibitively higher than standard automated vehicles, but there are such systems elsewhere in the world (Germany?).

See pages 11 and 15 of this summary:
www.canadaline.ca/files/u...doc177.pdf

 

[roch5220]

But isn't the "redevelopment" of the SRT going to replace the MKIs with MKIIs? So it's just a question of buying more MKIIs if the line is lengthened.

Its one of the options, along with converting it to streetcar,bus, or subway.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

That Brimley station would be retarded. Riders of the 21 might save a minute using it but even then it's pretty pointless. All they need to do is make a western exit for the STC station, but that would make sense so it'll never be done. If STC station had a western exit and Brimley station was built, they'd be only 200m apart. Now that the Bick's plant has been converted into another cardboard recycling plant, development west of Brimley will procede very slowly.

 

[socialwoe]

The SRT can't be converted into a subway.

It can be. Don't blame me if you and the TTC have the creativity of a dried out sponge :evil .

Fortunately, Midland and Brimley are not heavily trafficked, a busway through the hydro corridor could meet up nicely with the Lawrence bus, express buses could take the 401, etc.

Busway through the Hydro corridor? Scratch the creativity comment, you're just plain hair-brained :lol ! Well like I said it'd only take 36 months to convert the line into hard subways. Why the TTC wants to squander more taxpayers' money on interim busways along pre-approved EA studied subway ROWs is beyond me (yes, I'm talking about the busway to York U when the 196/106 isn't even at capacity all day).

To make it worthwhile they could extend the RT on the other end of it, south of Kennedy to somewhere downtown. That would also eliminate a transfer. Particularly if it went express.

Tell me you mean west of Kennedy and not south? Eglinton, Eglinton...EGLINTON!!!! Once I considered what it'd be like to route a subway/RT via Stoufville GO, Kingston and Fallingbrook/Victoria Park south to Neville Pk and across Queen St but I've sinced been schooled so to speak that'd it'd only benefit a few 000 at most through the Cliffside area. If Eglinton already existed I'd probably endorse it but RT west could really junpstart something huge!

Which is basically the same as of having a redundant line that would cannibalize off the existing danforth line.

Not really. There's a false impression that BD's close to everywhere major which it most definitely isn't. Only Queen Street can fulfill the core's desperate need for mass transit (YUS loop doesn't cut it). The routing of buses through southeast Toronto sucks as well with no through route giving the north of BD routes more reliable service than the south.

Its one of the options, along with converting it to streetcar,bus, or subway.

The cheapest and most likely outcome would be buses, a blow to enthusiasts I know, but at least in it's own ROW and with the ability to route several buses instantaneously (90 sec headways) service would match if not exceed the SRT (no blackouts, track maintenence).

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"Well like I said it'd only take 36 months to convert the line into hard subways."

That's such a random estimate...based on how long other subway lines took, it'd probably be 6 years. that's long enough that people will move away or permanently switch to other modes of travel.

Converting the RT into subway the way you're thinking of doing it is not feasible - every inch of track would have to be removed and rebuilt from scratch, every station would have to be completely torn down and rebuilt from scratch, the tunnel at Ellesmere would have to be widened, probably shutting down GO service for a while, etc., etc., etc. And there'd be no rapid transit east of Warden station for pretty much the entire time since the RT would be shut down while the subway was built...other options leave open the possibility of running the RT during construction.

A subway could be run up the hydro corridor to STC following the RT's general alignment but I don't think a cubic centimetre of RT-era concrete would be retained. The general corridor could be converted to subway, but the RT's infrastructure itself? Not a chance.

edit - Can the elevated RT supports even handle the weight? Subways full of people must be at least 5 times as heavy as the RTs.

 

[socialwoe]

"That's such a random estimate...based on how long other subway lines took, it'd probably be 6 years. that's long enough that people will move away or permanently switch to other modes of travel."

Oh ye of little faith. If everyone would up and abandon STC altogether just due to a few years of express bus service which will result in a permanent subway link to the area, that tells me STC truly isn't all that important.

"every station would have to be completely torn down and rebuilt from scratch, the tunnel at Ellesmere would have to be widened, probably shutting down GO service for a while, etc., etc., etc."

Why completely torn down? Lawrence East is a very broad station, even if the southbound platform is sacrificed to accomodate the larger subway cars, there'd still be surplus room for people to stand and wait. The n/b platform could remain as is. My only concern would be whether the underground walkway could withstand subways running overhead.

Ellesmere is a toss up because I'd consolidate both it and Midland Stns right at the Midland/Ellesmere intersection. This part would be completely underground hence dwelving under about 100m south of the current station. East of there it'd resume at grade with the addition of Brimley Stn before ascending upto the current STC stn. Further east I'd preserve McCowan as well and hopefully expand to Centennial College and beyond. I'd even compromise Malvern for your Milliken folk if you knew what the word meant :lol .

"And there'd be no rapid transit east of Warden station for pretty much the entire time since the RT would be shut down while the subway was built...other options leave open the possibility of running the RT during construction."

So how exactly did people survive before subways existed in Toronto? I said this before but for emphasis increased service of 9/16 all day, special status for the Stoufville GO line whereby no additional fare is charged to TTC customers to ride so long as they have a valid transfer during the construction period, rerouting of several Kennedy routes to Warden and Don Mills Stns. Again not rocket science, just sacrificing short term benefit for long term gains .

"The general corridor could be converted to subway, but the RT's infrastructure itself? Not a chance."

The corridor's the most important thing, losing the space-age looking plasti-domes I could get over.

"Can the elevated RT supports even handle the weight? Subways full of people must be at least 5 times as heavy as the RTs."

How. many. times. have. I. stated. that. they. would. fortify. the. friggin. elevated. portion. first? Additional beams would work fine and if not they can knock down the EROW and maintain the subway within the same path. My hope's for the former as elevated the line can accomplish more than at grade at a fraction of the cost of underground and remember any expansion north or east would be built in consideration that it's supporting subway cars.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Fortify this, expand that, widen everything...it all sounds so easy. It's not.

"So how exactly did people survive before subways existed in Toronto?"

Before the Yonge and Bloor lines were built, the areas in question had a fraction of the population they have now since they weren't highly developed yet - farms don't need subways. Lots of roads in Scarborough had absolutely no traffic back then, either, which made driving across the city or downtown infinitely easier, speeding up bus routes, too.

 

[wyliepoon]

The Star

Link to article

Mayors push better transit


Mar 01, 2007 04:30 AM
Carola Vyhnak
STAFF REPORTER

It took Pickering Mayor Dave Ryan 12 minutes to drive from his home near the Scarborough-Pickering border to a breakfast meeting 9 kilometres to the east last week.

The trip would have taken an hour and a half on public transit, he said, offering that detail as an example of Durham Region's shortcomings in the public transportation system.

Getting around quickly, efficiently and economically is on both his and Ajax Mayor Steve Parish's priority list as they set their municipalities' agendas for the next four years.

They outlined their plans and priorities at a meeting of the Board of Trade at Annandale Golf and Curling Club in Pickering.

"We want to make it possible for people to leave their cars at home," Ryan said, outlining plans to revitalize the Liverpool Rd. commercial corridor, which would include a pedestrian link to the GO station.

"Encouraging public transit is vital for the future health and substainability of our communities."

But, "we need to think creatively and beyond our borders," he added.

Ryan suggested extending Scarborough's "lame duck" Rapid Transit line into Pickering, Oshawa, Markham and York Region to create a major transportation network linking "millions of people, several key business corridors and two university campuses within three separate municipal regions."

Parish echoed Ryan's concern about the state of public transit in Durham Region.

"People are spending an inordinate amount of time locked in their cars in a gridlock situation ... while their taxes are going up," he said.

He said the provincial election in October and possible federal election this spring provide a chance to bring attention to the issue and push for funding from Ottawa and Queen's Park.

The fiscal imbalance must be corrected, he said.

"They must give municipalities sustainable funding for transit and transportation."

 

[scarberiankhatru]

He's just trying to one up Joe Li's plan to extend the Yonge line to Hwy 7 & Ninth Line.

""They must give municipalities sustainable funding for transit and transportation.""

How bout funding for sustainable transit? If all we're given is money for SRTs, stubways, and Sinkhole extensions, no wonder we're in such a mess.