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"Not to sound condescending"

You're not capable of sounding condescending.

"Oakdale Stn. has very little to do with the golf course."

And a Don Mills & York Mills station has nothing to do with Donalda golf club.

"Jane-Sheppard is the densest neighbourhood west of Keele"

It's also the only neighbourhood on Sheppard west of Keele, unless the warehouses and parks at Weston count as a neighbourhood, too.
 
You're not capable of sounding condescending.

Well when I have to contend with the King of Put-downs nothing I say can compare I suppose.

And a Don Mills & York Mills station has nothing to do with Donalda golf club.

Right, the roaming precipices are far more important :rolleyes !

It's also the only neighbourhood on Sheppard west of Keele, unless the warehouses and parks at Weston count as a neighbourhood, too.

*cough* Humberlea *cough*! Finch West has even more parkland and industrial sprawl, the difference mine's destined for the 27/Dixon/Pearson nodes and Brampton gateway. Your's what's exactly at Islington/Finch again? Oh yeah a ****ing park, Gracedale sharah :evil ! Still want to take me to task on where and where not to build lines based on topography/land relief!?!
 
Socialwoe: can the emoticon overload. It's crass, it's tacky, and it's so kewl-wannabe-90s...
 
^How is two emoticons an overload? What's crass is your attitude :) . What's tacky is that you'd bring this up now when I've and countless others have regularly used emoticons in their replies, you know to express emotion and shit like that! And what's kewl (nice spelling there Adema/Enema/Adam/Asthma/Ass-mouth :lol !) wannabe 90s is the constant non-transit related dreck you spew solely at me in a vain attempt to scare me off. Well until this city has more east-west lines and connections to the borders and beyond, it'll never f-cking work! (again only two emoticons were necessary to dispell your antagonistic rant).
 
Yes, a few emoticons are bad, but an endless number of images and sound samples is just fine.

Anyway...

East-west lines ought to be the focus, and it is still difficult to believe that bringing the subway out to Scarb is not in the cards right now.

Beyond the invective, these various transit threads have been quite informative. Thanks for the considerable info and ideas.
 
This part: "and it is still difficult to believe that bringing the subway out to Scarb is not in the cards right now"

It's a half billion dollar kick to the groin.
 
^Oh, I agree, it's expensive. But there is high growth potential in the former city centre, and so a subway extension is certainly worth considering. That's why I bring it up. But if you are suggesting that there are other target areas for subway investment, you won't get an argument from me stating otherwise.
 
I'm saying they should extend the subway...they're going to spend over $500 million on an upgraded RT.
 
Yes, a few emoticons are bad, but an endless number of images and sound samples is just fine.

Three cheers for sarcasm... hip, hip, hurray!

East-west lines ought to be the focus,

That's what I've been saying all along. While most posters here are more than content with riccocheting the full ridership potential of Queen, Eglinton and Sheppard with a circuitous DRL that only benefits the nodes immediately surrounding it and not the vast majority of the city, I've suggested lines to reach practically every nodal community in the city.

and it is still difficult to believe that bringing the subway out to Scarb is not in the cards right now.

It's the #2 priority after York U.

^ It's easy to believe, but it's hard to swallow.

Maybe if you gave up the silly notion to build an entirely new underground ROW that deducts severals stations hence less accessibility en route, just for the sake of a marginally slim time advantage, then your digestion wouldn't be so out of whack :rolleyes !

Oh, I agree, it's expensive.

Any subway extension will cost mulla money, we can't afford to waste anymore time debating this moot point, subways are overdue in the here and now!

But there is high growth potential in the former city centre, and so a subway extension is certainly worth considering.

Yes but we must not disillusion ourselves into thinking STC the only place all planned subways must dead end. The areas of Milliken, Centennial C Progress, Eglinton East, West Hill, Highland Creek, Port Union, Sheppard East and Malvern could and should get greater accessibility in the future.

But if you are suggesting that there are other target areas for subway investment, you won't get an argument from me stating otherwise.

Simple, downtown Toronto via Queen Street, not an open pit for a handful of condo dwellers.

I'm saying they should extend the subway...they're going to spend over $500 million on an upgraded RT.

True, preferrably it should be a subway instead, but when STC has to compete with an extension 30 years in the making touted as the solution to YUS overcrowding, we probably should cut our losses for now and wait til this VCC crap is over and done with.
 
"Maybe if you gave up the silly notion to build an entirely new underground ROW that deducts severals stations hence less accessibility en route, just for the sake of a marginally slim time advantage, then your digestion wouldn't be so out of whack"

No one uses McCowan, Midland or Ellesmere stations and the Sheppard line will serve the area of the latter two, anyway, and either line may one day extend beyond STC. Most people that use Lawrence East station arrive by the 54 and will actually benefit if the stop is relocated eastward. There are some advantages to running in the current RT corridor, but there are some disadvantages, too, including possibly shutting down subway service east of Warden and the RT and the Stouffville GO line, simultaneously, for a long time. A hard technical look at the feasibility of the RT corridor would present some tricky and expensive problems.
 
No one uses McCowan, Midland or Ellesmere stations

Why do you think that is Scarberian ;) ? People need incentive to use the stops, mainly they just need ped-friendly accessibility and redevelopment of the surrounding neighbourhoods encouraging bussinesses and hence jobs to filter in. McCowan is already connected and utilized by Corporate Dr workers and the Lee Centre. Forcing commuters everywhere from Progress to Ellesmere to Brimley to McCowan to a forever walk or shuttle into STC makes no sense.

the Sheppard line will serve the area of the latter two, anyway, and either line may one day extend beyond STC.

Yeah a rail junction north of the 401 will be sooooooo cloose to Midland and Ellesmere :rolleyes . As for expansion if it takes this long to even consider STC conversion I couldn't fathom when BD ever would reach Milliken or Sheppard Malvern.

Most people that use Lawrence East station arrive by the 54 and will actually benefit if the stop is relocated eastward.

Agreed although Kennedy/Lawrence/Midland developed up to what it is today thanks to the RT stop. All those office towers, a college, apt buildings and even the factory outlet bloc would be left behind with a shift east to the Hydro Corridor. Unless they kept some form of transit along the SRT corridor it'd be a huge step backwards for accessibility, destroying a whole history and way-of-life that Scarborough folk have come acustom to for so long.

including possibly shutting down subway service east of Warden and the RT and the Stouffville GO line, simultaneously, for a long time.

Even if the reno were done by sloths, I couldn't see a shutdown exceeding 36 months. Increased service on 9 Bellamy and 16 McCowan from Warden kind of appeases BD to STC demand. Kennedy and STC could still operational as bus terminals. As for Stoufville, the shutdown time would be alot less due to the construction occuring mainly on the west line of the corridor.

A hard technical look at the feasibility of the RT corridor would present some tricky and expensive problems.

While I don't have blueprints of Kennedy Stn I think most of the station lies west of the RT corridor, meaning it just takes a sharp curve to align the subway with it. Though according to Transit Toronto this would occur around Lord Robert's it's likely it could happen simply underneath the apartments just to the northeast of the station. The area south of Lawrence is the Hydro Corridor hence only crown land is expanded on. North of there, the building outposts are significantly far back from the fencing hence only parking spaces would be lost to landowners. The Ellesmere overpass would only need excavation and fortification that'd realistically take around 2 months to complete. The elevated portion would be the easiest and likely could be ran out to Markham Road. I'd rebuild STC alot further west than the current location to have distinct Brimley and McCowan Stns. If the line were to continue up McCowan it makes the two STC stops all the more necessitious as there wouldn't be Bellamy and Markham stops to serve the enterprises further east.
 
Why Scarborough Will Never Have a Rapid Transit Network

The TTC has finally delivered up a report in reply to my deputation last August on the question of why the RT should not be converted to LRT in the context of (a) a larger Scarborough LRT network and (b) the request from the Scarborough Caucus to extend the line into Malvern. No big surprise. The TTC really doesn’t want to convert the line.

The report can be found at:

www.ttc.ca/postings/gso-c.../_conv.htm

The argument in brief is that there is no customer benefit of a conversion, that it would require a prolonged closure of the line and that the Malvern extension cost would be equal no matter what technology was chosen.

The TTC claims that the RT is the most reliable service they operate, an easy claim given that it’s a captive line totally on its own right-of-way. They assume that an LRT extension would be in some sort of mixed traffic and that this would contribute to unreliable headways on the existing section of the line and loss of capacity. Conversely, if the line were extended on a completely segregated right-of-way, then the cost of the infrastructure would be comparable to that of an extended RT.

This ignores the possibility that an extended RT line might branch and feed service from different parts of northeast Scarborough into the common exclusive corridor down to Kennedy Station. That’s part of what I implied in looking at the network context. Indeed, the TTC is so paranoid about non-exclusive services that they state that an RT-replacement-LRT would still be operated as a separate line to preserve operational integrity. Obviously if you force people to transfer, you lose the benefit of service integration and your analysis leads exactly to the conclusion you were seeking.

The claim that a three-year period would be needed to complete the conversion also strikes me as taking the worst possible scenario to produce the desired conclusion. Among the major construction tasks are the replacement of the tunnel at Ellesmere and the fact that the station structure at Midland does not lend itself easily to conversion as an LRT station with low platforms.

The TTC has not looked at alternate alignments for the new LRT line that would move the tunnel (and possibly some other parts of the line) and allow construction to take place while the RT was still in operation. The presence of a large City works yard northeast of Ellesmere Station provides the opportunity to move the Ellesmere Station and remain at grade including a new Midland Station. Options east of there include a new station at Brimley which is much easier to build if at grade than on the existing elevated structure.

One notable point in the TTC’s analysis is the absence of a cost estimate for the extension by any mode beyond McCowan Station. The entire premise of the “deal†proposed to Scarborough Caucus was that the “savings†of an RT upgrade compared to a subway would be ploughed back into a network of lines in Scarborough. However, as RT, an extension to Malvern may eat up all of that saving.

I am not going to pretend that my proposal has much hope of being adopted because the pressure for retention of the RT technology and the foot-dragging on any implementation of LRT is too strong. What we will probably see is continued pressure for extension of the Sheppard Subway, an extension of the RT to Finch, and a network of bus lanes. What we will get is some of the bus lanes. Period.

stevemunro.ca/

Pretty dismal report if you ask me even if I suspected as much it'd take 36 months to convert the SRT.
 

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