[kEiThZ]

Not that far off - I bet we'll hit $4 billion yet. SELRT is fully funded already though - so we could have 57 stops. And probably a lot sooner than 2027.

You are presuming no changes in cost estimates for those LRT lines. That's very presumptuous. I'd say even a 20% higher estimate is highly optimistic, if I had to guess.

Nevertheless, I'd trade the subway for LRT to Malvern and Eglinton East till Sheppard or Finch.

Sheppard can live with buses until they come up with a cohesive vision for the whole Sheppard corridor.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You can have your cake and eat it too - reuse the RT alignment and shift the savings to Eglinton East, which is currently hardly funded. The only price is pain during its' execution, but if downtown can do it before, Scarborough certainly can do it now.

AoD

 

[kEiThZ]

You can have your cake and eat it too - reuse the RT alignment and shift the savings to Eglinton East, which is currently hardly funded. The only price is pain during its' execution.

AoD

I am very skeptical of the Murray plan price tag. How much actual planning/engineering did they do before they gave that estimate?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I am very skeptical of the Murray plan price tag. How much actual planning/engineering did they do before they gave that estimate?

There is an entire Metrolinx report written and published about it - and it presumed far more station retention than even the Murray plan. Are we more confident about a plan that reuses most of the infrastructure or one that have to dig completely anew on a separate alignment and envisions a whole new set of ancillary infrastructure?

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

I am very skeptical of the Murray plan price tag. How much actual planning/engineering did they do before they gave that estimate?

He likely had the bottom left hand corner of the envelope he planned the HSR to KW on available to plan his Scarborough solution

 

[OneCity]

You can have your cake and eat it too - reuse the RT alignment and shift the savings to Eglinton East, which is currently hardly funded. The only price is pain during its' execution, but if downtown can do it before, Scarborough certainly can do it now.

AoD

Bake me that cake as fast as you can. That's what the debate should have always been SLRT vs Subway on the same alignment and only make sense to use the same to connect SCC to the core.

Just elevate the damn thing wherever possible.

 

[kEiThZ]

On the matter of cost savings. It's always struck me as odd, that they insisted on grade separation east of McCowan. I don't see the need for it.

They could run at-grade along Progress. Bit of expropriation and narrowing of Progress. But at least then we could have a stop at Markham and at Centennial .

 

[44 North]

Was playing with an old template I had, so it's shoddy. But just wanted to see how it looked and to gauge whether it'd be palatable. Basically this would follow the exact same SSE McCowan routing, but as a separate line (i.e not an extn of Line 2). It could be built above-grade from Kennedy stn to Danforth Rd/Eglinton, then deep bore from there to Triton/McCowan. Since it's not an extension of Line 2 people will be miffed about not being 'connected' etc, but the bonus would be that it's interlined with a Line 4 extension. This could be built as affordably as possible, and the whole thing would be spec'd to 4-car/100m trains max. One could argue that it's a light metro/subway and is somehow insufficient, but it's still very much a subway and would be very much sufficient.

I don't actually support building an orbital or suburban circle line, but if it's done affordably, can appease the masses, and can kill two birds with one stone (i.e see stations like Lawrence E added and finally put to rest speculation re: Line 4) then I think something like it should be pursued.

 

[lead82]

This ugly big white elephant will be built no matter what. $10B dollars later, we will have the jewel of East Toronto. It will be a busy station no doubt. That's not the point. The point is it wont improve transit in Scarborough, nor remove the Scarborough stigma. Unless the city can fund Eglinton East and Sheppard, the one stop extension will not do much for Scarborough except to save them 5-10 minutes each way due to less bus time getting to SCC station.

 

[OneCity]

This ugly big white elephant will be built no matter what. $10B dollars later, we will have the jewel of East Toronto. It will be a busy station no doubt. That's not the point. The point is it wont improve transit in Scarborough, nor remove the Scarborough stigma. Unless the city can fund Eglinton East and Sheppard, the one stop extension will not do much for Scarborough except to save them 5-10 minutes each way due to less bus time getting to SCC station.

10B huh? - Cmon and a 50B DRL is coming too?

Sheppard LRT is funded - not highly supported but yes it is funded. Could be an extension of SSE to Sheppard with funds.

Eglinton East LRT - Highly supported but not funded. Design is being paid by the Province and Feds. People will fight for this to be built as well. I see no reason why it wont when it ready unless Cons are in power and they are heavily focused on the Sheppard subway

This doomsday scenario is something else. That's without considering the Smarttrack which could get cancelled next election and funds allocated towards a better subway or worst case scenario actually built.

 

[nfitz]

Sheppard LRT is funded - not highly supported but yes it is funded. Could be an extension of SSE to Sheppard with funds.

For $0.95 billion in $2010? Might get you to Warden if you are lucky. Victoria Park at the rate the SSE is getting more expensive.

Eglinton East LRT - Highly supported but not funded. Design is being paid by the Province and Feds. People will fight for this to be built as well. I see no reason why it wont when it ready unless Cons are in power and they are heavily focused on the Sheppard subway

Cons heavily focused on Sheppard? As if. Recall that Metro had to pay 100% of the original Sheppard subway last time the PC got to power.

 

[OneCity]

For $0.95 billion in $2010? Might get you to Warden if you are lucky. Victoria Park at the rate the SSE is getting more expensive.

Cons heavily focused on Sheppard? As if. Recall that Metro had to pay 100% of the original Sheppard subway last time the PC got to power.

I meant extend the SSE to Sheppard not build the Sheppard subway with the LRT funds. I believe that's been the direction for quite a long time and we'll see it come election time. If you haven't noticed Sheppard residents (even in Malvern) heavily support the SSE and this will be an easy play.

These Cons will be supporting subways. Whether they even get in or deliver is another debate. But they will be fully supportive of them come election time. Its a bit different now to say the least. Its coming

http://www.ontariopc.com/News/Details/Statement-from-Ontario-PC-Leader-Patrick-Brown-on-Toronto-City-Council’s-Support-of-the-Scarborough-Subway

"... That is why we support the originally announced Subway extension beyond Scarborough Town Centre, to Sheppard Avenue and McCowan Road"

 

[nfitz]

I meant extend the SSE to Sheppard not build the Sheppard subway with the LRT funds. I believe that's been the direction for quite a long time and we'll see it come election time. If you haven't noticed Sheppard residents (even in Malvern) heavily support the SSE and this will be an easy play.

It's post-election though ...

... though extending the subway to Sheppard seems reasonable to me. It seems stupid to take it so far, and fail to go for the end-line. And I'd prefer they spent $200 million on a station at Lawrence East, than a @*(*#$ underground bus terminal - because there is a shortage of land out there to put a bus terminal like Kennedy or Kipling?

But you still build the Sheppard East LRT - and find a way to run it through the existing tunnel - with special vehicles somehow.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I meant extend the SSE to Sheppard not build the Sheppard subway with the LRT funds. I believe that's been the direction for quite a long time and we'll see it come election time. If you haven't noticed Sheppard residents (even in Malvern) heavily support the SSE and this will be an easy play.

1. I really doubt that the Sheppard LRT funds would pay to extend the subway 2 km north to Sheppard, including tunneling under the 401. Assuming an extremely conservative cost of $700 Million per km, that would cost $1.4 Billion; well in excess of Sheppard LRTs funding envolpe

2. It's really quite late in the game to start making such drastic changes, and would add considerably to the delays. Remember, tunnelling is anticipated to start on the north end of the line. Moving that starting point to Sheppard now means that they need to, from scratch, do geotechnical and cost estimates, create a whole new cost estimate, etc... No major contruction work can begin until that is sorted out because, again, the TBM is planned to begin boring from the north end of the extension.

 

[robmausser]

I am very skeptical of the Murray plan price tag. How much actual planning/engineering did they do before they gave that estimate?

The nice thing about the Murray plan is that we can cancel the Lawerence Smarttrack/RER station, as it makes more sense to build a subway station if the line is going through there.

Not much savings but its something to consider in cost estimates.