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People should be writing their city councillors, demanding that this grotesque waste of money be cancelled, and the previous LRT plan be reinstated.
 
If Scarborough existed in a vacuum, I would absolutely support the subway. More than enough people will use if for me to serve it. However, Scarb does not exist in a vacuum and we have other, more urgent transit priorities in this city. To put things in perspective, that $1.5 Billion could have been used to:

-Build the full Jane LRT
-Build the full Waterfront West LRT
-Build the full Don Mills LRT
-Build the Malvern LRT
-Extend Finch West RT to Yonge
-Extend Eglinton RT to Pearson
or
-Fund the Don Mills Subway, from Danforth to Eglinton.

Each of those projects would be a huge contribution to our rapid transit system, providing service to desperately underserved parts of the city.

But instead, we're paying $1.5 to build to build a smaller RT network to Scarborough, apparently because a transfer of a few meters in length is too much trouble for some people to deal with.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
If Scarborough existed in a vacuum, I would absolutely support the subway. More than enough people will use if for me to serve it. However, Scarb does not exist in a vacuum and we have other, more urgent transit priorities in this city. To put things in perspective, that $1.5 Billion could have been used to:

-Build the full Jane LRT
-Build the full Waterfront West LRT
-Build the full Don Mills LRT
-Build the Malvern LRT
-Extend Finch West RT to Yonge
-Extend Eglinton RT to Pearson
or
-Fund the Don Mills Subway, from Danforth to Eglinton.

Each of those projects would be a huge contribution to our rapid transit system, providing service to desperately underserved parts of the city.

But instead, we're paying $1.5 to build to build a smaller RT network to Scarborough, apparently because a transfer of a few meters in length is too much trouble for some people to deal with.
Click to expand...

And it's not like Etobicoke has not dealt with the transfer itself for almost 60 years
 
joel in to said:
People should be writing their city councillors, demanding that this grotesque waste of money be cancelled, and the previous LRT plan be reinstated.
Click to expand...

Funny that LRT people will complain about sunk costs of cancelled LRTs, but then they demand cancelling yet another plan, wasting even more money, and even more time. OK.
 
Voltz said:
All just to get rid of one transfer?

Do you have any idea how much more transit could have been built for that money?

That could have built a new GO line from Scarborough to midtown Toronto, or all day frequent service on the Lakeshore East and Stouffville GO lines, or another LRT line, or the Eglinton LRT to the Airport, or a thousand buses with a suburb wide network of que jump lanes....

As well as the fact that this kind of political interference has likely put an end to the Big Move and any hope of something more than one vote buying pork barrel line every decade or so.
Click to expand...
Which illustrates even more what a huge blunder it was not to spend some of that $8 billion on the one local project we need(ed) more than any other -- a DRL. But let's just ignore the fact that Miller and Giambrone couldn't even spell DRL. It must entirely be the crackhead's fault. And let's not forget this extension was the focal point of Smitherman's transit platform (as opposed to Ford and his Sheppard fixation), so Smitherman would have had to re-jig the Transit City plan in a similar way when the bill came due.

Hmm, "a thousand buses with a suburb wide network of que jump lanes" you say? What do you know -- yet another transit initiative that crackhead and the two geniuses before him had no use for.
denfromoakvillemilton said:
And it's not like Etobicoke has not dealt with the transfer itself for almost 60 years
Click to expand...
What comparable so-called "forced transfer" is there in Etobicoke?
 
TheTigerMaster said:
If Scarborough existed in a vacuum, I would absolutely support the subway. More than enough people will use if for me to serve it. However, Scarb does not exist in a vacuum and we have other, more urgent transit priorities in this city. To put things in perspective, that $1.5 Billion could have been used to:

-Build the full Jane LRT
-Build the full Waterfront West LRT
-Build the full Don Mills LRT
-Build the Malvern LRT
-Extend Finch West RT to Yonge
-Extend Eglinton RT to Pearson
or
-Fund the Don Mills Subway, from Danforth to Eglinton.

Each of those projects would be a huge contribution to our rapid transit system, providing service to desperately underserved parts of the city.

But instead, we're paying $1.5 to build to build a smaller RT network to Scarborough, apparently because a transfer of a few meters in length is too much trouble for some people to deal with.
Click to expand...

People had justifiable concerns about the transfer at Kennedy. There were two options on how to solve the problem: extend the subway for an extra $1.5B; or, connect the SRT to an elevated Eglinton line for an extra $300 to $400M. That $1B+ could have also been put to good use.
 
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GenerationW said:
Which illustrates even more what a huge blunder it was not to spend some of that $8 billion on the one local project we need(ed) more than any other -- a DRL. But let's just ignore the fact that Miller and Giambrone couldn't even spell DRL. It must entirely be the crackhead's fault. And let's not forget this extension was the focal point of Smitherman's transit platform (as opposed to Ford and his Sheppard fixation), so Smitherman would have had to re-jig the Transit City plan in a similar way when the bill came due.

Hmm, "a thousand buses with a suburb wide network of que jump lanes" you say? What do you know -- yet another transit initiative that crackhead and the two geniuses before him had no use for.
What comparable so-called "forced transfer" is there in Etobicoke?
Click to expand...

How long are you going to blame Miller in the dead of night for your problems? He has been out of office for 4 years. When do McGuinty, Wynne, Ford and the rest take blame? A DRL could have been pushed by the provincial Liberals harder? Did they?


And for Etobicoke... they have to transfer at St George to go downtown if using the subway. I never said IN etobicoke in that post. At least be fair if your are going to come to quote my posts and to start something with me all the time.
 
There's no sunk costs in the subway at this point. No contracts have been tendered, environmental assessments haven't even begun. At this early stage it could be cancelled for zero dollars, and the city would save the full $1 billion that's about to be wasted on this.
 
joel in to said:
There's no sunk costs in the subway at this point. No contracts have been tendered, environmental assessments haven't even begun. At this early stage it could be cancelled for zero dollars, and the city would save the full $1 billion that's about to be wasted on this.
Click to expand...

GenerationW and others are well aware of this, but saying this is everyone's fault sounds better.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
And for Etobicoke... they have to transfer at St George to go downtown if using the subway. I never said IN etobicoke in that post. At least be fair if your are going to come to quote my posts and to start something with me all the time.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that's one transfer, or two if you count in bus-to-subway. For Scarborough, it is two or three, respectively (bus to RT, RT to Danforth subway, and Danforth to Yonge).

More importantly, Scarborough subway has become a status issue. I do not live in Scarborough and hardly ever travel there, but I support their subway at this point. Canceling it now would bring too much bad will.
 
Rainforest said:
Yes, but that's one transfer, or two if you count in bus-to-subway. For Scarborough, it is two or three, respectively (bus to RT, RT to Danforth subway, and Danforth to Yonge).

More importantly, Scarborough subway has become a status issue. I do not live in Scarborough and hardly ever travel there, but I support their subway at this point. Canceling it now would bring too much bad will.
Click to expand...


But this is the problem. We're blowing 3 billion because it looks good.
 
den, there is plenty of reasoning behind it. its not another Sheppard. remember that the TTC itself (not just politicians) support it. It will have the same ridership figures as the DRL, and will be plenty busy. Considering the connectivity improvements it brings to scarborough and durham through the connections to DRT pulse and the sheppard LRT, it is well worth the cash IMO. It will likely improve Scarborough commutes by upwards of 10 minutes or more compared to the LRT option. I am of the opinion of building transit right, and the right choice for this corridor is the subway. While the DRL should probably be first, the needed replacement of the SRT makes this important to do first. Fords reasoning (as well as much of councils) behind supporting this project is not the reason to support it, but it is very much so a valuable and worthy investment IMO. it will also allow for Markham to set up feeder service, something not really feasible before. The extension is really going to change the face of transit in scarborough, allowing for more of a traditional bus-subway feeder system that has been so successful in Toronto that simply isn't possible with the LRT route and alignment.
 
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Expanding GO service from Milliken to Union and integrating fares with the TTC would have also changed the face of transit in Scarborough, and people would be able to get downtown with no transfers.
 
that wouldn't have given a connection to STC, and would have screwed over people further north on the stouffville GO line. even if you were to upgrade it to 30 minute service (about as much as is reasonable) it wouldn't have been nearly as good of a service.
 
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